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Train felt like it was derailing

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Raedwald

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The first time I went from London to Bristol on an 800 I nearly managed to convince myself it was going to derail as the ride was so much rougher than an HST - especially between Paddington and Reading. The last couple of times it's been similar though, so I suppose that must be normal
 
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ComUtoR

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Lets not be encouraging people to pull passcoms every time there's a bit of a rough ride.

It wasn't stated as a 'rough ride' it was stated as the passenger felt like the train was going to derail. To me, that would be a valid use of the passcom. If anybody feels like they are in real danger then I would 100% support the use of the passcom. If I was the Driver and got a passcom because the passenger felt like the train was going to derail, I would thank that passenger and report it. If it was a simple rough ride I would still be very grateful, it would still be reportable and I would speak to that passenger and offer reassurance and educate them. I am DOO so there is no Guard to go and talk to.

There was a guy the other day talking about pulling passcoms for a beggar going down the train. Come on folks, lets not encourage passcom misuse.

Pulling for a beggar would be misuse. Potentially preventing a derailment isn't. I would hope that we are here to educate and find those differences between valid usage and misuse.

I hope you would follow responses of "no" with "good". The last thing we want is encouragement to stop trains when rough riding is perceived!

I think we are quick to put down any use of the passcom. I will reiterate that if somebody feels that the train was about to derail then that should be considered t be an emergency. I am reminded of a Red video recreation of an incident. The Driver didn't report a rough ride (for whatever reason) and the Guard felt the train 'lurch' Nobody reported anything. The Guard believed the Driver would have reported it. The next train over it derailed.

Reporting a 'rough ride' is part of our duties and if I missed it form some reason then I fully support a passenger reporting it to me. Sooner is always better than later.
 

kristiang85

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You should travel the jumping trains in Burma - I've never known anything like it, and I must admit there were times I thought I was going to be an FCO overseas death statistic.

I didn't think to take any video myself, but there's stuff on YouTube... e.g.
 

bionic

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It wasn't stated as a 'rough ride' it was stated as the passenger felt like the train was going to derail.

And is the passenger a rolling stock technician? Did the train derail?

Obviously if there is something clearly dangerous going on, then fair enough but please bear in mind that this forum is read by people with conditions such as autism and Aspergers syndrome who may well take your advice literally. Yours or my little jolt over a set of points might be their idea of armageddon about to rain down. I stand by my previous post that encouraging people to pull passcoms on a forum like this is irresponsible.
 

ComUtoR

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I stand by my previous post that encouraging people to pull passcoms on a forum like this is irresponsible.

So how do we educate the public to act sensibly and how do we distinguish between offering good advice and bad ? Should we never say anything and stick to TOPS requests and seating configurations ?

We are very quick to put down any use of the passcom and hammer into people in those threads about using it sensibly. A potential derailment is valid. I've been passcom'd for some very stupid reasons. I would rather help educate people than constantly berate and castigate them. Just as I'd say in those threads where there is clear misuse. If you feel you are in danger. Pull it. I can count on one hand the number of times I have had a genuine passom. They frustrate me but that is my job to deal with it.

There is a whole thread about Lewisham and people egressing onto the track. There are many threads about people who will pull a passcom because they were overcarried. This is probably the first time I have seen someone report a genuine concern over train safety.

My 'encouragement' is for people to act when they have a safety concern or belief they are in danger. I think that should be supported.
 
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_toommm_

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I've always found Morpeth quite bad to be honest - back in my more naive days, a drink spilt on my macbook completely totalling it. I wouldn't have minded as much if it was the corner and the drink tilting over, but it was a really sudden jolt! Let's just say now I know about that corner I've been more cautious since...
 

PHILIPE

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I've always found Morpeth quite bad to be honest - back in my more naive days, a drink spilt on my macbook completely totalling it. I wouldn't have minded as much if it was the corner and the drink tilting over, but it was a really sudden jolt! Let's just say now I know about that corner I've been more cautious since...


Morpeth Curve is well known, in fact there is a whole thread on it. For reference if required:-

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/morpeth-curve.179566/
 

londonmidland

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Until quite recently, travelling on an EMT HST anywhere south of Bedford at 100mph+ used to be particularly rough. It seems to be quite a bit better these days, but can still be rough in places.
 

route:oxford

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There's been quite a lurch coming off the E&G at Greenhill Upper for as long as I can remember, the diverging speed is 70 which is quite high.

In 1996, a sub-prime parent sitting opposite me was allowing her three year old to dance on the table of a 158. I warned her as we approached Greenhill that the train was about to lurch violently and she should get her daughter off the table.

The mother wasn't impressed and told me to "get to Falkirk" or similar and I had no right to tell her what to do.

Less than a minute later the train lurched violently and the wee one went clattering off the table and knocked herself out cold.

Ambulance attended at Larbert. Gave a witness statement to BTP, not sure what the outcome was, but hope she was ok - she didn't choose her parents.
 

Cowley

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I was on a 143 going from Exeter to Teignmouth one evening and whilst heading along Exminster straight at full speed the whole unit started doing what I could only describe as the train (and I use that term advisedly) equivalent of a motorbike style tank slapping episode - rocking alarmingly from side to side and shaking unpleasantly.
The driver hurriedly backed off the power and things smoothed out thankfully, but I gripped my seat and looked at the other passengers who were also looking worried.
I obviously pulled the emergency brake straight away and evacuated the passengers when we came to a stop.
Only joking. But I did ask a driver friend about it a few days later and he said “Yeah, they do that sometimes”...
 

PHILIPE

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At one time there used to be a marked lurch on an HST at Wootton Bassett Jn when taking the South Wales route.
 

hexagon789

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I was on a 143 going from Exeter to Teignmouth one evening and whilst heading along Exminster straight at full speed the whole unit started doing what I could only describe as the train (and I use that term advisedly) equivalent of a motorbike style tank slapping episode - rocking alarmingly from side to side and shaking unpleasantly.
The driver hurriedly backed off the power and things smoothed out thankfully, but I gripped my seat and looked at the other passengers who were also looking worried.
I obviously pulled the emergency brake straight away and evacuated the passengers when we came to a stop.
Only joking. But I did ask a driver friend about it a few days later and he said “Yeah, they do that sometimes”...

They don't call them Nodding Donkeys for nothing! :lol:
 

LOL The Irony

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I was on a 143 going from Exeter to Teignmouth one evening and whilst heading along Exminster straight at full speed the whole unit started doing what I could only describe as the train (and I use that term advisedly) equivalent of a motorbike style tank slapping episode - rocking alarmingly from side to side and shaking unpleasantly.
The driver hurriedly backed off the power and things smoothed out thankfully, but I gripped my seat and looked at the other passengers who were also looking worried.
I obviously pulled the emergency brake straight away and evacuated the passengers when we came to a stop.
Only joking. But I did ask a driver friend about it a few days later and he said “Yeah, they do that sometimes”...
They don't call them Nodding Donkeys for nothing! :lol:
I think it's exacerbated on 143's due to the shorter wheelbase.
 

gazthomas

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I was recently on a Thameslink train between St. Albans City and St. Pancras International and I really did think we were going to derail at one point. I got quite concerned.
 

47271

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The worst regular experience I have is on elderly LNER HSTs bombing round the bends at Grantshouse and Cockburnspath. I think the condition of the line is probably fine, it's the suspension bottoming out combined with wheezing gangways and coffee cups zooming across the table all at the same second that can be a bit disconcerting.

I know Morpeth has a bad reputation but I've never found it rough, it's taken so slowly.

Greenhill is usually no more than a brief sway to my mind, I think it's just that the OP was aboard a knackered mk3. One of the points on the westbound main line at Cadder Yard used to be rougher to me, but that seems to be a lot better now.

The best antidote for those nervous of rough riding is to always sit in the middle of the coach.
 

Temple Meads

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I was on a 143 going from Exeter to Teignmouth one evening and whilst heading along Exminster straight at full speed the whole unit started doing what I could only describe as the train (and I use that term advisedly) equivalent of a motorbike style tank slapping episode - rocking alarmingly from side to side and shaking unpleasantly.
The driver hurriedly backed off the power and things smoothed out thankfully, but I gripped my seat and looked at the other passengers who were also looking worried.
I've experienced similar in that location myself recently - though perhaps not as bad as the driver didn't cut the power and the other passengers didn't seem too bothered - maybe they've just got used to it by now!
 

TheEdge

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I stand by my previous post that encouraging people to pull passcoms on a forum like this is irresponsible.

While we don't want people pulling passcoms all over the place we also don't want people afraid to pull them when there is good reason. As ComUtoR says someone pulling one in good faith but unnecessarily is not the end of the world. A passenger might notice something traincrew won't for various reasons. Go look at the accident report into Potters Bar, all the driver got in his cab was a loss of brake continuity, nothing to immediately suggest something as catastrophic as had happened was unfolding. A brake calliper may be binding and smoking, but if its 3 coaches back the driver won't know. Suspension may have deflated but if its in the middle and the guard isn't in that coach they won't know.
 

tsr

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I don't think a passenger has ever actually approached me to say they thought the train was going to derail (probably one of the very few things a passenger hasn't ever reported to me, to be honest). But if they did I would definitely treat it with an abundance of caution. The reason being that I have reported rough rides before and I can't think of a recent occasion when they haven't resulted in some remedial action "on the spot" or works being programmed for a later date. (One of the more entertaining occasions involved a Network Rail controller going slightly nuts at p-way for, shall we say, their inability to deal with ballast properly.) But not one of those times has a passenger really so much as noticed a problem or commented on it, even in passing. So anything which does make a passenger concerned is not necessarily going to be really small, minor and nothing to be worried about, indeed probably the opposite...
 

sikejsudjek

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The underground stock on the isle of Wight is always a lively ride!

I would think its always worth reporting unusually rough riding to network rail. Chances are they already know about it and its within the safety margin - but it could be an indication of a more serious problem developing. Landslips can start slowly and rapidly deteriorate. Track twist, broken fishplates etc can all cause a rough ride, and deteriorate if not picked up quickly.
 

irish_rail

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I'll never forget riding on a voyager up the wcml on 7th Feb 2007 and using the toilet in the grayrigg area and nearly falling over due to a sudden bit of rough track. About 3 hours later a pendolino came off the road there and a passenger died and I can't help but wish I had said something to the train manager at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing....
 

185

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I've no issue with passengers pulling the passcom who are genuinely in fear for their safety. As mentioned above, the Eschede DB train crash could have been averted or mitigated had the passenger pulled (or been able to pull ie was there one?) a passcom, instead of wasting vital seconds in traipsing through a large train to find the Train Manager. PPM? Performance? Delay Repay Threshold? Nah. Better late than... upside down.
 

Tio Terry

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Back in BR days I was once travelling at night from York to Kings Cross in the restaurant car of an HST.We stopped at Peterborough and, after departing, I think the driver thought he was on the up fast because when we reached the river bridge we very suddenly lurched left, right, left as we passed through the points to join the up fast. Everything on the table hit the floor, there was a massive cry from the kitchen and a cook had a big gash in his arm, walking back down the train to find the Guard or Conductor people were picking up cases that had fallen, replacing what had been on tables but had reached the floor. When I found the Conductor I told him I was an Engineer and that I was concerned that the track could have been damaged by what was clearly excessive speed and asked that he get the driver to stop at an appropriate signal and report the incident to the signaller so that an examination could take place, this duly happened. Upon reaching Kings Cross there was a reception party waiting to talk with the driver!

The other known "lurch" was at Gidea Park on the up fast, used to wake me up in the mornings in readiness for getting off at Liverpool St!
 

Bletchleyite

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I've no issue with passengers pulling the passcom who are genuinely in fear for their safety. As mentioned above, the Eschede DB train crash could have been averted or mitigated had the passenger pulled (or been able to pull ie was there one?) a passcom, instead of wasting vital seconds in traipsing through a large train to find the Train Manager. PPM? Performance? Delay Repay Threshold? Nah. Better late than... upside down.

The concern isn't really, I reckon, people pulling it for borderline-genuine reasons. Someone activated it in the bog of the 2304 Euston-Northampton last night for no apparent reason, causing a few minutes' delay. It's pretty obvious in 350s that it isn't the flush.
 

LOL The Irony

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As mentioned above, the Eschede DB train crash could have been averted or mitigated had the passenger pulled (or been able to pull ie was there one?) a passcom, instead of wasting vital seconds in traipsing through a large train to find the Train Manager.
There was but the guard actually refused to let the guy use it, wanting to see the problem first.
 

jj1314

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Until quite recently, travelling on an EMT HST anywhere south of Bedford at 100mph+ used to be particularly rough. It seems to be quite a bit better these days, but can still be rough in places.

I used to travel that route twice a week and completely agree. I was lucky enough to enjoy frequent Advance 1st fares, and 'lucky' enough to enjoy numerous coffee spillages over some of the S&C! A rare occasion where I'd advocate coffee cups with lids over china.
 

4F89

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Stockport to guidebridge on the single is fun in a 66 at full chat....
 
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