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Digital Family and Friends Railcard - is dual use possible?

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pdq

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Renewing my F&F railcard, which has my wife and I both named on the card. I've spotted that it can now be delivered digitally and stored on 2 smartphones. This makes a scenario possible and I want to make sure this is OK to do.

My wife and son are travelling to Manchester Airport on a Friday and returning the following Monday. They can use the railcard stored on my wife's phone. I assume I am then eligible to use the version on my phone to travel with my daughter on the days they are away. Is this right? Could I actually travel on the same days - or even simultaneously to them - if I wanted to?

Thanks.
 
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Romilly

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This does not seem to be addressed explicitly in the terms and conditions for the Family & Friends Railcard. The nearest provision in the T&Cs is:

4.5. If the named Railcard holders travel separately, only one cardholder may use the Railcard for discounted tickets as the Railcard must be produced for inspection together with the discounted tickets.

If you read the words from "as" onwards as merely an explanation for the rule, I think that the rule could then be said to bar you from using the railcard at times when your wife is actually on a journey using the railcard. Personally, I wouldn't use my digital copy of the railcard at times when the other named holder of our railcard was using it on a journey until there is clear authorisation to do this. [I did wonder whether this meant that you shouldn't use your copy of the railcard while your wife is away as she will be in the middle of a return railcard journey, but I can't see how that would be case: for example, if you and your wife used your railcard to travel to Manchester for the day, and while you did things in Manchester your wife did a return trip by rail to a nearby town, your wife's extra trip could be a railcard-discounted journey even if you had a paper railcard despite the fact that both of you are at that time in the middle of your railcard-discounted return journey to Manchester.]

On the other hand, if you read those words as stating the principle underlying the rule, that would suggest that there is no problem with simultaneous use as each holder can show the railcard. However, in the absence of clear confirmation that this is allowed, I personally wouldn't do this. I did wonder whether there is a central computer tracking use of digital railcards, but I cannot see how that would work as the use would be detected only if you are subject to a ticket-check, and in addition you do not touch out with your railcard at the end of your journey so the computer would not know when any particular use had ended.
 

AnkleBoots

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Given that the cardholders can just be acquaintances rather than spouses, it seems against the spirit of the rules to do this, as otherwise two unrelated families can get a railcard for half price.

But it seems unlikely that this "misuse" would be spotted.
 

Fawkes Cat

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I think @Romilly and @AnkleBoots are right: the current letter of the rules may allow you to do this, but it's not the intention of the rules. So at some point, we can probably anticipate the rules being reworded to make it clear that only one version of the railcard can be used at any point in time.

There's a thread on the disputes forum where a side issue is whether the forum member had an opportunity to buy a ticket before travelling: there was no ticket office or machine at their starting station, but they obtained a ticket before boarding by downloading the trainline app and buying an m-ticket (which turned out to be the wrong ticket). What really follows from these two cases is that the current rules (written on the assumption that all tickets and railcards are physical pieces of card) aren't really fit for purpose when there is electronic ticketing. Can we expect a rewrite of NRCoT, RORA and the bylaws, or will there be increasing numbers of mismatches between what the rules say and what actually happens?
 

richw

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The t&c specifies the reason for only one or the other is because both persons can’t present one physical card in different places at the same time. This reason is eliminated with a digital card.
There’s no way of policing if person 1 is using it at the same time as person 2 in reality
 

pdq

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Thanks for the responses. Whether detectable or not, in reality I won't use it at the same time (or even on the same day) as my wife, and she will be out of the country on the day I will use it. I think morally this is fine - a little logistical bonus that digital delivery gives over paper/plastic.
I agree that T&Cs are out of date with regard to digital delivery. Either the tech needs to be updated to match the rules or vice versa.
Are there any other railcards that have this apparent weakness / strength (delete as you feel appropriate)?
 

scrapy

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Given that the cardholders can just be acquaintances rather than spouses, it seems against the spirit of the rules to do this, as otherwise two unrelated families can get a railcard for half price.

But it seems unlikely that this "misuse" would be spotted.
But given that they can be aquaintancies it seems unreasonably to expect somebody making a spontaneous journey to have to contact the other person to ensure they aren't making a journey at the same time. And if you really wanted to complicate things you'd then have to define what classes as using both railcards at the same time. What if one person was breaking their journey? Could the other person then use the card? What if they are just changing trains or using station facilities. Can the other person legitimately make a short journey in this time. I suspect the TOCs aren't to bothered after all any ticket income is income.

The only time showing two versions of the same Railcard on different phones could ever be a problem would be if attempting to travel together with more than the number of discounted tickets for one Railcard.
 
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