ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

hexagon789 · 5 Apr 2019

jingsmonty said:
You can get a fair kick from the Scotrail 4+2 sets if it's damp too! Good thing is, with the lighter load, you can accelerate reasonably quickly on a lower power notch, although. I've not had the experience of driving them during the worst of the autumn leaf fall season yet. We'll see this year what that's like.....

At least the lesser weight means you can do that. As for autumn, hopefully it's not too bad this year.

najaB said:
I've seen both in the past.

Personally I've only ever seen x power cars + x trailers; never the other way around. Indeed I thought 4+2 was a typo.

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hexagon789 · 5 Apr 2019

jingsmonty said:
A Deltic was/is a fine loco (I occasionally passed RSG moving class 334s to Kilmarnock when I worked in Strathclyde) & you're spot on in saying that they have a good route availability.

But, an HST as a set has 4500hp (between the 2 power cars), so there's no way a Deltic could compete on performance.

I never saw a Deltic run as a mainline passenger loco (I was only 10 back in 1982!), but, whilst some people thought HSTs were 'bland & faceless', I think they are every bit a characterful. Now HSTs days are numbered on the long distance routes, I totally 'get' how the Deltic fans feel!

And that performance will, hopefully, soon be slashing, 10-13 minutes of journeys!

anamyd · 5 Apr 2019

Highlandspring said:
On a completely unrelated note I’m intrigued how ScotRail has latched on to calling the sets x+2 while the rest of the world refers to formations as 2+x. In the same way the sets are invariably referred to as units in the Control Log; they also very rarely use powercar numbers or even the word ‘powercar’ but write nonsense like “Driver reports unit HA03 has low power and fluctuating amps”. Or asking to run back to back powercars under a class 5 headcode... or seemingly no one realising until recently that if you leave a set stabled with both the powercars shut down eventually the air drops and the doors unlock, then treating it as a wrong side door failure... In my opinion the introduction has exposed a wee bit of a lack of experience and understanding of what you might call ‘real’ trains in some areas of the company.

whether a unit or a rake, defecting "HA03" isn't very useful if it's a power car fault, with the power cars being able to swap around!

Highlandspring · 5 Apr 2019

Exactly!

deltic08 · 5 Apr 2019

hexagon789 said:
Yes, but a Deltic can't stop from 125mph in 1,930yds!
View attachment 61077

I didn't imply it could but I have been behind a Deltic+8 running 20 late out of Kings Cross and passed Doncaster right time. I timed it doing 120mph in places riding quite smoothly in mark 2s that are limited to 100mph. It was holding 110-112mph most of the way. The loco was Deltic 08!

hexagon789 · 5 Apr 2019

deltic08 said:
I didn't imply it could but I have been behind a Deltic+8 running 20 late out of Kings Cross and passed Doncaster right time. I timed it doing 120mph in places riding quite smoothly in mark 2s that are limited to 100mph. It was holding 110-112mph most of the way. The loco was Deltic 08!

I was more highlighting a reason why HSTs are allowed to do 125 and Deltics are not

anamyd said:
whether a unit or a rake, defecting "HA03" isn't very useful if it's a power car fault, with the power cars being able to swap around!

I hope it's not a reason why full sets are being taken out of service when swapping out power cars would suffice.

Highlandspring · 5 Apr 2019

hexagon789 said:
I hope it's not a reason why full sets are being taken out of service when swapping out power cars would suffice.

No, it’s a terminology thing.

jingsmonty · 5 Apr 2019

hexagon789 said:
And that performance will, hopefully, soon be slashing, 10-13 minutes of journeys!

Hope so!

jingsmonty · 5 Apr 2019

deltic08 said:
I didn't imply it could but I have been behind a Deltic+8 running 20 late out of Kings Cross and passed Doncaster right time. I timed it doing 120mph in places riding quite smoothly in mark 2s that are limited to 100mph. It was holding 110-112mph most of the way. The loco was Deltic 08!

Unfortunately we have OTMR now..... :lol:

jingsmonty · 5 Apr 2019

anamyd said:
whether a unit or a rake, defecting "HA03" isn't very useful if it's a power car fault, with the power cars being able to swap around!

It's also not very helpful when you are the nightshift driver & you have 2 HST sets to fuel/marshall for the morning...it's not easily apparent which set is which! We just have to say to Control 'power car numbers, please'!

jingsmonty · 5 Apr 2019

Highlandspring said:
On a completely unrelated note I’m intrigued how ScotRail has latched on to calling the sets x+2 while the rest of the world refers to formations as 2+x. In the same way the sets are invariably referred to as units in the Control Log; they also very rarely use powercar numbers or even the word ‘powercar’ but write nonsense like “Driver reports unit HA03 has low power and fluctuating amps”. Or asking to run back to back powercars under a class 5 headcode... or seemingly no one realising until recently that if you leave a set stabled with both the powercars shut down eventually the air drops and the doors unlock, then treating it as a wrong side door failure... In my opinion the introduction has exposed a wee bit of a lack of experience and understanding of what you might call ‘real’ trains in some areas of the company.

I would agree with that. Remember, Scotrail haven't had to deal with anything other than DMUs/EMUs since BR days. It's a learning curve for us all....

chuff chuff · 5 Apr 2019

4+2.....The four is the important bit especially when we start running 5+2.

43096 · 5 Apr 2019

chuff chuff said:
4+2.....The four is the important bit especially when we start running 5+2.

The ‘2’ is the important bit as without them you ain’t running anything!

chuff chuff · 5 Apr 2019

43096 said:
The ‘2’ is the important bit as without them you ain’t running anything!

Ha yeah but then we wouldn't have to worry about it.

Highlandspring · 5 Apr 2019

jingsmonty said:
I would agree with that. Remember, Scotrail haven't had to deal with anything other than DMUs/EMUs since BR days. It's a learning curve for us all....

There are a few clued up controllers who used to deal with the sleepers but pretty much everyone who covers the Network side has only ever known units (the Fife Circle loco hauled stock only has minimal input from ScotRail). Before that the last regular loco hauled stuff for ScotRail was in 1994. From what I saw the briefings when the HSTs appeared were cursory at best so it has indeed been a very steep learning curve for Control and it’s certainly not bottomed out yet.

chuff chuff · 5 Apr 2019

I can remember the old fitters moaning about all the new fangled stuff when the sprinters came out,the current lot will be moaning about the old fangled stuff.

hexagon789 · 5 Apr 2019

Highlandspring said:
No, it’s a terminology thing.

Oh right, thanks

jingsmonty said:
Hope so!

As do I, still nearly 3 hours to Aberdeen on some services.

dblspotter · 9 Apr 2019

Was on the 16:11 GLQ-DEE yesterday and we passed the 15:40 GLQ-ABD, HST broken down in the tunnel, caused no end of disruption throughout the evening peak apparently, anyone have any idea what the fault was?

chuff chuff · 9 Apr 2019

dblspotter said:
Was on the 16:11 GLQ-DEE yesterday and we passed the 15:40 GLQ-ABD, HST broken down in the tunnel, caused no end of disruption throughout the evening peak apparently, anyone have any idea what the fault was?

Power problem,cause I don't know.

DuncanS · 9 Apr 2019

Finally got on a scheduled HST today and all I could think of was "oh look, every seat still has First branding on it"

AndrewE · 9 Apr 2019

DuncanS said:
Finally got on a scheduled HST today and all I could think of was "oh look, every seat still has First branding on it"

All the other aspects of rail travel must have been acceptable then (if nothing else made any impression...

43096 · 9 Apr 2019

DuncanS said:
Finally got on a scheduled HST today and all I could think of was "oh look, every seat still has First branding on it"

Do they still have the 'f' in circle logos on the backs of the seats, then? They should be removed as part of the de-branding for handback and the ROSCO could (should) charge for doing so if the TOC doesn't.

fgwrich · 9 Apr 2019

43096 said:
Do they still have the 'f' in circle logos on the backs of the seats, then? They should be removed as part of the de-branding for handback and the ROSCO could (should) charge for doing so if the TOC doesn't.

They would still be there in the Unrefurbished sets. Rightly or wrongly, it’s just easier and cheaper to leave them in there and remove them when the coach is refurbished. All removed in the Refurbished ScotRail sets.

43096 · 9 Apr 2019

fgwrich said:
They would still be there in the Unrefurbished sets. Rightly or wrongly, it’s just easier and cheaper to leave them in there and remove them when the coach is refurbished. All removed in the Refurbished ScotRail sets.

I'm not surprised they are still there. I would also not be surprised if Angel are charging GWR for their replacement on refurbishment.

Brissle Girl · 9 Apr 2019

Do ScotRail have something similarly branded there on the refurbed sets? If so it would be pretty pointless to get GWR to replace them with a blank only for them to be replaced again. So they all may have agreed that it wasn’t necessary. The situation of putting unrefurbed sets into service would no doubt come after any such agreement so wouldn’t have been taken into consideration. Just a thought.

jimm · 10 Apr 2019

Brissle Girl said:
Do ScotRail have something similarly branded there on the refurbed sets? If so it would be pretty pointless to get GWR to replace them with a blank only for them to be replaced again. So they all may have agreed that it wasn’t necessary. The situation of putting unrefurbed sets into service would no doubt come after any such agreement so wouldn’t have been taken into consideration. Just a thought.

43096 never misses an opportunity to have a go at First Group about anything at all in any thread that is available on the forum - however trivial the reason.

Never mind that in this case, the original intention was that any set appearing in Scotland was supposed to have gone through refurbishment before a passenger set foot on board, so they would not have to avert their eyes from the shocking sight of the flying F in the 'classic' sets...

nat67 · 10 Apr 2019

fgwrich said:
They would still be there in the Unrefurbished sets. Rightly or wrongly, it’s just easier and cheaper to leave them in there and remove them when the coach is refurbished. All removed in the Refurbished ScotRail sets.

Actually I had an un-refurbished set and they put a round metal circle over the existing F logo.

43096 · 10 Apr 2019

jimm said:
43096 never misses an opportunity to have a go at First Group about anything at all in any thread that is available on the forum - however trivial the reason.

Never mind that in this case, the original intention was that any set appearing in Scotland was supposed to have gone through refurbishment before a passenger set foot on board, so they would not have to avert their eyes from the shocking sight of the flying F in the 'classic' sets...

Ah, our resident WorstGroup sycophant speaks!

Never mind that it is a contractual requirement for the TOC to de-brand on handback. That includes the f-in-circles on the seat backs.

GrimShady · 10 Apr 2019

jimm said:
43096 never misses an opportunity to have a go at First Group about anything at all in any thread that is available on the forum - however trivial the reason.

Never mind that in this case, the original intention was that any set appearing in Scotland was supposed to have gone through refurbishment before a passenger set foot on board, so they would not have to avert their eyes from the shocking sight of the flying F in the 'classic' sets...

He's not entirely wrong is he? Apart from Hull Trains, First are a joke.

Northhighland · 10 Apr 2019

See third refurb set seems to have gone from Inverness. Is that all the training now done in Inverness? Is it in passenger service?

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