Mother sues Network Rail over "silent trains" role in daughter's death

dgl · 14 Apr 2019

Bertie the bus said:
Yes, let's fine a corpse and if she doesn't pay it dig her up and imprison her.

You fine the parents. The idea being is that the amount of media coverage doing that would create would maybe make people sit up and listen to the fact that railways are not to be messed around with. We should not have to deal with people who mess around with the railways and get hurt as a result and unfortunately it is going to take incidents like this to drive the message home (or so you would hope, although with the Instagram generation it probably won't :frown:

).

Yes it's sad that a young person has lost their life and it must be heart wrenching for the parents but someone has to take responsibility and any parent that thinks that it's not their responsibility to teach their offspring road/rail safety and then passing the blame for their lack of teaching them that on to someone else is moronic.

The only person who deserves real sympathy is the driver of the train as something happened that will probably traumatise him for life because someone thought playing on the tracks was acceptable.

RailUK Forums

317666 · 14 Apr 2019

I'm afraid as far as I'm concerned it's a classic case of Darwinism, nothing more. The irony is that the money Network Rail are being sued for could actually be put towards making safety improvements instead!

EM2 · 14 Apr 2019

Glenn1969 said:
The last train leaves Bradford at 0001 from May for Halifax. The last train from Halifax to Bradford is 0025. After this there are no scheduled passenger Northern workings until morning services start at roughly 5.30.

Empty stock movements?
Freight workings?
Test trains?
Rail grinders?
Sandite trains?

Aictos · 14 Apr 2019

I see how the family's lawyer say it's not about the money yet they're claiming for £22k in damages so if that's not about the money why the claim?

Also the Network Rail lawyer has some common sense and I quote "There would have been no significant risk to anyone using the crossing between 11pm and 7am, provided they checked carefully in both directions before crossing the track”.

Interesting question now but can the driver of the train involved sue the family for the trauma and stress that their actions led to?

After all, some incidents have resulted in so much stress and trauma that some drivers can never drive again as they suffer flashbacks from that incident.

Glenn1969 · 14 Apr 2019

Not many due to the reverse required at Bradford Interchange

30907 · 14 Apr 2019

Scott M said:
Of all the places to sit, why right in the middle of the tracks. Even if I thought trains were not running, I would not do this just incase.

Can see Network Rail being found guilty if they can prove the fact they were sitting made no difference, and that if they had just been walking across normally they would have been at risk of getting hit due to insufficient time to move out of the way from when the train was first in sight. Otherwise think it will go down as misadventure.

The verdict was accidental death as per link from post #20.

MichaelAMW · 14 Apr 2019

Sounds as if drivers need to sound both tones of the horn, three long doubles blasts, 24 hours a day - instead of the overnight quiet spell. Network Rail and BTP to keep up their visits to schools.

EM2 · 14 Apr 2019

Glenn1969 said:
Not many due to the reverse required at Bradford Interchange

Not many is not none.
And that doesn't mean that there won't be short-term changes to the standard working timetable.

Glenn1969 · 14 Apr 2019

RTT shows one freight train which is a Q path

221129 · 14 Apr 2019

Glenn1969 said:
RTT shows one freight train which is a Q path

Which is not in the public time table. Also, what about the trains that don't show up in RTT?

Glenn1969 · 14 Apr 2019

There are freights on the Calder Valley route but I think due to the reverse required at Bradford Interchange most of them will be routed via the Transpennine main route through Mirfield after Milner Royd Junction

Llama · 14 Apr 2019

martin2345uk said:
I believe that has actually already happened in this case.

Yes, that foot crossing was closed several years ago now. Another foot crossing in the area on the same line was closed at around the same time, that foot crossing had also had a fatal accident in the summer of 2014 where the use of the warning horn was put under scrutiny. I can't remember which incident came first but I remember both incidents at the time. Subsequently visits were made to both foot crossings where the use of the horn by drivers was checked by Network Rail & Northern. Some deficiencies and inconsistencies were found. After one of the (or maybe both) fatal incidents new instructions were issued to drivers, to sound both tones at the whistle boards on approach to those specific crossings, and to sound both tones again on approach between the whistle boards and the crossings, in both directions.

mmh · 14 Apr 2019

My, there's some depressing language and sentiment here.

No need to chastise the parent, as for "playing the victim", ugh. They are a victim, they've had the worst thing that can happen to a parent.

It'd be more positive to wonder what more can be done to prevent such tragedies. Sometimes court cases are a way of doing that.

Darandio · 14 Apr 2019

mmh said:
It'd be more positive to wonder what more can be done to prevent such tragedies. Sometimes court cases are a way of doing that.

Well one surefire way to prevent them is to not sit on a live railway track. Other than closing such crossings, i'm not sure there is a way of preventing stupidity.

EM2 · 14 Apr 2019

Glenn1969 said:
There are freights on the Calder Valley route but I think due to the reverse required at Bradford Interchange most of them will be routed via the Transpennine main route through Mirfield after Milner Royd Junction

And one day, there might be an issue on that route, so they have to use the route over this crossing. This is why you must always treat a line as if there are trains running, unless you have been told by a person in authority (usually a signaller) that this is not the case.

robbeech · 14 Apr 2019

Glenn1969 said:
There are freights on the Calder Valley route but I think due to the reverse required at Bradford Interchange most of them will be routed via the Transpennine main route through Mirfield after Milner Royd Junction

What exactly are you trying to justify here in this thread?

Glenn1969 · 14 Apr 2019

Just answering a question. As this line has been a suicide hotspot for some time I think security is required to stop pedestrians accessing the railway

martin2345uk · 14 Apr 2019

Glenn1969 said:
Just answering a question. As this line has been a suicide hotspot for some time I think security is required to stop pedestrians accessing the railway

Well as said earlier in the thread this particular level crossing has since been closed and fenced off.

Bertie the bus · 14 Apr 2019

dgl said:
You fine the parents. The idea being is that the amount of media coverage doing that would create would maybe make people sit up and listen to the fact that railways are not to be messed around with. We should not have to deal with people who mess around with the railways and get hurt as a result and unfortunately it is going to take incidents like this to drive the message home (or so you would hope, although with the Instagram generation it probably won't ).

You fine people who have committed no criminal offence, weren’t there and had no knowledge of what the deceased was doing. Some people really need to read what they type before posting.

Darandio · 14 Apr 2019

Glenn1969 said:
Just answering a question. As this line has been a suicide hotspot for some time I think security is required to stop pedestrians accessing the railway

What you are doing is trying to make a claim that sites such as RTT show no trains are running so it's fine for people to rely on them. It's not and it's dangerous advice.

Bevan Price · 14 Apr 2019

bramling said:
If as reported this is absolutely crazy.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but this seems a case of natural selection in action. What a ridiculously stupid thing to do.

And clearly it does seem to be about money, as otherwise the parents could find far more constructive ways of taking the matter forward, not least educating others about the hazards of (trespassing on) railways.

I really hope this case doesn’t succeed.

I wonder if the "Compensation Culture Industry" might have some involvement in bringing the case ???

mafeu · 14 Apr 2019

Glenn1969 said:
Just answering a question. As this line has been a suicide hotspot for some time I think security is required to stop pedestrians accessing the railway

Glenn1969, what do you propose? A high wall along the entire rail network? Best put signs on the wall too: 1) please don’t climb, 2) may cause death if climb, 3) may cause death trespassing on railway, 4) please read the signs

It’s a choice to put oneself in danger.

Glenn1969 · 14 Apr 2019

Calderdale Council have responded to a spate of suicides in Halifax Town Centre with mesh fencing on both sides of North Bridge plus signage encouraging people to talk and call the Samaritans if necessary. Maybe a similar approach is needed on the railway at known risk points like this one

theironroad · 14 Apr 2019

While it was a tragic case for all involved, the coroner's comments cited in the daily mail link make it clear that sitting in-between railway tracks wasn't a wise thing to do. Go figure.

tsr · 14 Apr 2019

Bertie the bus said:
You fine people who have committed no criminal offence, weren’t there and had no knowledge of what the deceased was doing. Some people really need to read what they type before posting.

Broadly speaking I agree, though it must be said that the parent (or someone else) sounds like they knew what their daughter was doing, given the statements of how the crossing was being used (it reads to me like it was previously known that she thought it to be a nice place to hang out).

In other words, the reason for them being there appears to have been known, so someone must have been told why they would likely be at that spot.

Glenn1969 said:
Calderdale Council have responded to a spate of suicides in Halifax Town Centre with mesh fencing on both sides of North Bridge plus signage encouraging people to talk and call the Samaritans if necessary. Maybe a similar approach is needed on the railway at known risk points like this one

This is already done. Indeed, one of the standard checks following a railway fatality is to see if appropriate signage is in place, and at certain locations, this includes Samaritans signage.

I'd say it's rare for me not to come across a platform end without Samaritans signs these days. Many level crossings also have such signs, although often not the really, really quiet foot crossings.

BRblue · 14 Apr 2019

Glenn1969 said:
The last train leaves Bradford at 0001 from May for Halifax. The last train from Halifax to Bradford is 0025. After this there are no scheduled passenger Northern workings until morning services start at roughly 5.30.

Without wanting to sound harsh... what you have written above is part of the problem. The railway works 24/7, just because there are no timetabled services or they do not show up on RTT. Does not mean there is no chance a train or machine will run.
The simple fact is... anyone who trespasses on the railway is risking their lives, whatever the time of day.

theironroad · 14 Apr 2019

BRblue said:
Without wanting to sound harsh... what you have written above is part of the problem. The railway works 24/7, just because there are no timetabled services or they do not show up on RTT. Does not mean there is no chance a train or machine will run.
The simple fact is... anyone who trespasses on the railway is risking their lives, whatever the time of day.

+1

The sooner that kids and adults realise that the railway infrastructure operates 24/7/365 the better. Just because someone doesn't think a train should be around isn't good enough. And yes, the conductor rail /OHLE should also be treated as live 24/7/365

Anything within the railway boundary fence should be treated as live , not as a place to hangout or take a shortcut or fail to observe the instructions at user worked crossings.

While RTT is a useful tool, it is NOT failsafe. Often trains that are implemented at very short notice in disruption do not appear in RTT or any other open source data feed. In disruption and service recovery a train may be moved somewhere unexpectedly with only two people involved - the driver and a controlling signaller.

People should not rely on RTT or some second instinct they have that no train movements usually happen, let alone the public timetable.

Mugby · 14 Apr 2019

Bevan Price said:
I wonder if the "Compensation Culture Industry" might have some involvement in bringing the case ???

Yes indeed, just what I was thinking.

I imagine the lawyers involved would take, say 20%, of any award should the case succeed, which I certainly hope it doesn't.
It's easy money for them, unfortunately.

Bertie the bus · 14 Apr 2019

tsr said:
Broadly speaking I agree, though it must be said that the parent (or someone else) sounds like they knew what their daughter was doing, given the statements of how the crossing was being used (it reads to me like it was previously known that she thought it to be a nice place to hang out).

In other words, the reason for them being there appears to have been known, so someone must have been told why they would likely be at that spot.

Whilst we will never know for certain, my reading of the reporting of the inquest was this information came from the girl she was with at the time. There is no evidence that her parents were aware she liked sitting on a railway line having a girly chat with her friend.

tsr · 15 Apr 2019

Bertie the bus said:
Whilst we will never know for certain, my reading of the reporting of the inquest was this information came from the girl she was with at the time. There is no evidence that her parents were aware she liked sitting on a railway line having a girly chat with her friend.

Perhaps we don't know for sure. I can see how there could be some ambiguity.

Mother sues Network Rail over "silent trains" role in daughter's death

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