Transport For Wales Livery

paddyb6 · 13 Apr 2019

anamyd said:
supposedly it's 826/830/839/836 so far

That is correct for the 158s

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anamyd · 13 Apr 2019

paddyb6 said:
That is correct for the 158s

Thanks! I can now confirm 836 and 839 in the list on page 9, especially as 836 was the third I saw in person (after 826 and 830), and I saw 839 in a video

Have any of them received logos / branding yet...?

PHILIPE · 13 Apr 2019

anamyd said:
Thanks! I can now confirm 836 and 839 in the list on page 9, especially as 836 was the third I saw in person (after 826 and 830), and I saw 839 in a video Have any of them received logos / branding yet...?

Seem to see pictures on Facebook almost every day and no. In view of their Cross Border working all day I don't think TFW can decide how not to upset the Welsh and the English

anamyd · 13 Apr 2019

PHILIPE said:
Seem to see pictures on Facebook almost every day and no. In view of their Cross Border working all day I don't think TFW can decide how not to upset the Welsh and the English

can't they just apply to the 158s the same branding as will be on the 230s - the big "T" logo, "Wales and Borders / Cymru a'r Gororau" and a smaller "Transport for Wales / Trafnidiaeth Cymru"...? 175-003 and 175-107 also work cross-border and do those get complaints about only saying "Transport for Wales / Trafnidiaeth Cymru"...?

krus_aragon · 13 Apr 2019

anamyd said:
175-003 and 175-107 also work cross-border and do those get complaints about only saying "Transport for Wales / Trafnidiaeth Cymru"...?

Perhaps they have: that might be why there was such a long delay after they were re-liveried, and no other 175s have been done yet. (Sheer conjecture!)

mmh · 13 Apr 2019

PHILIPE said:
Seem to see pictures on Facebook almost every day and no. In view of their Cross Border working all day I don't think TFW can decide how not to upset the Welsh and the English

Oh dear me no, please not this nonsense yet again.

Nobody is offended by the words on the side of a train, or seeing a language that isn't their first one.

If they are, it's an excellent indication that they're someone to just ignore.

anamyd · 13 Apr 2019

mmh said:
Oh dear me no, please not this nonsense yet again.

Nobody is offended by the words on the side of a train, or seeing a language that isn't their first one.

If they are, it's an excellent indication that they're someone to just ignore.

there must be some reason though...? and you said "nobody" followed by something that implies "not nobody"!

krus_aragon · 14 Apr 2019

mmh said:
Oh dear me no, please not this nonsense yet again.

Nobody is offended by the words on the side of a train, or seeing a language that isn't their first one.

If they are, it's an excellent indication that they're someone to just ignore.

I'm sure many would agree with that sentiment, as the requirement appears to have come from the DfT.

From the Agency Agreement document (page 32):

Welsh Ministers shall ensure that the Brand Guidelines developed with and issued to the Franchisee on trains, stations and for marketing material and publicity (excluding that for Wales-only services), shall recognise and demonstrate the cross-border nature of the Franchise and continue to comply with any licensing requirements regarding the use of trademarks licensed by the Secretary of State to Welsh Ministers.

43096 · 14 Apr 2019

krus_aragon said:
Perhaps they have: that might be why there was such a long delay after they were re-liveried, and no other 175s have been done yet. (Sheer conjecture!)

The reason no other 175s have been done is because an overhaul programme - including repaint - starts soon for them at Widnes. It would be pretty dumb sticking vinyls all over them just to rip them off a few weeks later. The first two were no doubt done to advertise the new regime.

anamyd · 14 Apr 2019

43096 said:
The reason no other 175s have been done is because an overhaul programme - including repaint - starts soon for them at Widnes. It would be pretty dumb sticking vinyls all over them just to rip them off a few weeks later. The first two were no doubt done to advertise the new regime.

Is there a date for that...? So all 27 units into Transport for Wales livery - I'm guessing the overhaul programme will also include significant mechanical attention and therefore reliability / safety improvements making fires less likely...? and any corrosion repaired as necessary...? And I'm guessing 107's centre car will be recommissioned...? Funny reading this after posting in an East Midlands Railway thread that the 175s should be scrapped after TfW, and their regional fleet should be 158s & 170s rather than 175s and 170s :lol:

What about the interiors - I'm thinking AC & USB power sockets, refoaming any hard seats, fixing any annoying faults e.g. things like loud transformers, removing any leaks e.g. replacing perished window seals, and replacing ATW safety posters with TfW ones. I don't see the point in retrimming the seats (same with the 158s) from ATW into TfW moquette; not for only 3 years. Same with doing anything about the ATW carpets or FirstGroup purple bits / signage... and I did hear about fixing air conditioning - would this also be done on 158s or would it be 175s only, due to them not having the "emergency" window hoppers...?

43096 · 14 Apr 2019

anamyd said:
Is there a date for that...? So all 27 units into Transport for Wales livery - I'm guessing the overhaul programme will also include significant mechanical attention and therefore reliability / safety improvements making fires less likely...? and any corrosion repaired as necessary...? And I'm guessing 107's centre car will be recommissioned...? Funny reading this after posting in an East Midlands Railway thread that the 175s should be scrapped after TfW, and their regional fleet should be 158s & 170s rather than 175s and 170s

What about the interiors - I'm thinking AC & USB power sockets, refoaming any hard seats, fixing any annoying faults e.g. things like loud transformers, removing any leaks e.g. replacing perished window seals, and replacing ATW safety posters with TfW ones. I don't see the point in retrimming the seats (same with the 158s) from ATW into TfW moquette; not for only 3 years. Same with doing anything about the ATW carpets or FirstGroup purple bits / signage... and I did hear about fixing air conditioning - would this also be done on 158s or would it be 175s only, due to them not having the "emergency" window hoppers...?

The programme starts in the next couple of months, as I understand it.

Scope is basically a C6 overhaul, so includes corrosion and repaint work. Internally, new carpets, seat cushions/covers, wall coverings sorted out. Internally they are very, very tired currently and cannot last 3 years as they are.

anamyd · 14 Apr 2019

43096 said:
The programme starts in the next couple of months, as I understand it.

Scope is basically a C6 overhaul, so includes corrosion and repaint work. Internally, new carpets, seat cushions/covers, wall coverings sorted out. Internally they are very, very tired currently and cannot last 3 years as they are.

Wow, OK. Will be interesting to see!

Cardiff123 · 14 Apr 2019

There's a date of 31 March 2021 for all of the legacy ATW fleet to be completely re-branded and refurbished inside and out.
The 150/2s, 158s and 175s must also have plug sockets at every seat and an interior refurbishment by the end of this year, although ATW refurbished the 150/2 interiors just before they left and the 158s are also in good condition internally, so that seems a bit unecessary, apart from the fact they are obviously in the wrong colour now.

anamyd · 15 Apr 2019

Cardiff123 said:
There's a date of 31 March 2021 for all of the legacy ATW fleet to be completely re-branded and refurbished inside and out.
The 150/2s, 158s and 175s must also have plug sockets at every seat and an interior refurbishment by the end of this year, although ATW refurbished the 150/2 interiors just before they left and the 158s are also in good condition internally, so that seems a bit unecessary, apart from the fact they are obviously in the wrong colour now.

in 2021, they won't have long before the new trains replace them anyway!

driver_m · 15 Apr 2019

43096 said:
The programme starts in the next couple of months, as I understand it.

Scope is basically a C6 overhaul, so includes corrosion and repaint work. Internally, new carpets, seat cushions/covers, wall coverings sorted out. Internally they are very, very tired currently and cannot last 3 years as they are.

Not wrong there, they look and feel knackered internally, which is odd considering the comparison to another Alston product (390) which has held up internally much more.

Phil from Mon · 15 Apr 2019

I’d have thought that plug sockets on the 175s were a greater priority than the 150s, and should have been done years ago. Four hours without laptop power is a pain.

Jez · 15 Apr 2019

Phil from Mon said:
I’d have thought that plug sockets on the 175s were a greater priority than the 150s, and should have been done years ago. Four hours without laptop power is a pain.

Totally agree. Its ridiculous that journeys of up to 6 hours and you cant charge your phone whilst far shorter journeys of sometimes only an hour get trains with plug sockets. The 175 are just like the 158s were before they had their refurbishment in 2010/11. They are long overdue a refurbishment.

anamyd · 15 Apr 2019

driver_m said:
Not wrong there, they look and feel knackered internally, which is odd considering the comparison to another Alston product (390) which has held up internally much more.

I believe the 390s have had like-for-like refurbishments. That is, done in 2016 around then but to the 2001 spec

anamyd · 15 Apr 2019

Jez said:
Totally agree. Its ridiculous that journeys of up to 6 hours and you cant charge your phone whilst far shorter journeys of sometimes only an hour get trains with plug sockets. The 175 are just like the 158s were before they had their refurbishment in 2010/11. They are long overdue a refurbishment.

Fair point, and I said something to the effect of your last two sentences a while back

Although I don't think it's strictly true as the 158s were proper grim... Will be interesting to see the 175s' "new" interiors!

driver_m · 15 Apr 2019

anamyd said:
I believe the 390s have had like-for-like refurbishments. That is, done in 2016 around then but to the 2001 spec

They’ve had replacements of various things at various stages. Seats, carpets, internal and external doors, LED lighting, bogies, HVAC, etc. But to look at, exactly the same layout inside.

anamyd · 15 Apr 2019

driver_m said:
They’ve had replacements of various things at various stages. Seats, carpets, internal and external doors, LED lighting, bogies, HVAC, etc. But to look at, exactly the same layout inside.

Thought so

FrodshamJnct · 15 Apr 2019

driver_m said:
Not wrong there, they look and feel knackered internally, which is odd considering the comparison to another Alston product (390) which has held up internally much more.

They really do. Dirty, scuffed and damaged. Not surprising I suppose considering how packed they are at times. Anyone know the plans for the Mk3s on the WAG sets? Will they be getting the new liveries at some point or did I read they’re being replaced with Mk4s (potentially)?

hobbm013 · 15 Apr 2019

Mk4s coming in December. One set has had TfW logos applied in place of the Arriva ones.

FrodshamJnct · 15 Apr 2019

hobbm013 said:
Mk4s coming in December. One set has had TfW logos applied in place of the Arriva ones.

Thanks. Wonder if the Manchester WAG set will remain as Mk3s as the TfW website makes it sound like the Mk4s are only for HHD/CDF?

6Gtraincrew · 15 Apr 2019

Well, if the internal refurbs get done to the same as the cgi mock-ups, they will all look much better inside. Even the PRM'd 153's look nice.

hobbm013 · 15 Apr 2019

Tom Maddox said:
Thanks. Wonder if the Manchester WAG set will remain as Mk3s as the TfW website makes it sound like the Mk4s are only for HHD/CDF?

Think someone mentioned a few pages back that the Manchester WAG would be operated by a unit with 2 Mk4 sets on HHD-CDF with the third spare. Lots of rumours about at the moment but that’s what was mentioned further up

anamyd · 15 Apr 2019

6Gtraincrew said:
Well, if the internal refurbs get done to the same as the cgi mock-ups, they will all look much better inside. Even the PRM'd 153's look nice.

would love to see those CGI mockups! sadly they're internal only I'm guessing...?

6Gtraincrew · 15 Apr 2019

Aye, afraid so

Rhydgaled · 15 Apr 2019

6Gtraincrew said:
Well, if the internal refurbs get done to the same as the cgi mock-ups, they will all look much better inside. Even the PRM'd 153's look nice.

PRM 153s! Never thought I would see that when both GWR and Northern elected to get rid of them instead. Are they going to remove the toilet or remove seats to fit in a PRM toilet? Or are they allowed to keep the present toilet as long as they are coupled to a 150 or 158 at all times from 1st Jan 2020 onwards?

anamyd · 15 Apr 2019

6Gtraincrew said:
Aye, afraid so

that is so sad and lame. jealousy I suppose

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