Class465fan
Member
I've been on non london buses and they tend to have wifi but how come most TFL if not all buses lack Wifi?
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Lack of free WiFi on London buses?
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Wifi is a gimmick and is no longer necessary in an era of near universal data subscriptions, especially on urban routes where 4G reception is good. TfL has provided next stop announcements for about a decade now, whereas most other companies still don't bother.
Nym
Established Member
Since when did WiFi become an essential for public transport? Especially buses.
Class465fan
Member
it's been a thing for a while now (two years or less i think).
Class465fan
Member
fair point
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Isn't wifi available at almost no cost to the operator if they fit a modern information system to give things like stop announcements and real-time departure displays?
If Tfl had free wi-fi of the kind that was 'available at almost no cost', there would be howls of complaints and derision from some posters because it didn't meet their 'need' to download a full 90 minute HD movie during a 10 minute journey. Why should London council tax payers and passengers pay extra for such an irrelevant service on a metropolitan bus system. As others have said, if you 'need' a permanent fix of broadband, pay for phone contract that has a 4G data allowance to satify that 'need', or grab a copy of Metro/ES and read it for 10 minutes. It's a (pretty good) bus service, - not a free mobile internet cafe.
For regular passengers, agreed. However, for tourists who might incur huge roaming charges, WiFi on public transport is unbelievably helpful and can be the difference between a very frustrating trip or a smooth day out. That said, I'd rather see investment in decent heating and cooling systems on buses to help with our ever increasing severe weather.
In most of the country operators try to encourage people to use buses, Tfl dont bother and would rather you used the underground.
Tourists from EU countries have the same data roaming access in the UK as they do at home. London is an expensive city for tourists. I doubt whether the bother of providing wi-fi for the few who have arrived ill-prepared would make much difference in the level of receipts from foreign passengers.
Outside London, services are rarely as frequent as in London and many provincial operators are desperate for fare income. In Herts, not many of the local bus routes have wi-fi, - I can only think of the Arriva Sapphire routes.
Not true I'm afraid. Large areas of London are only served by buses - and some of them by infrequent services.
TFL don't need to encourage people to use buses, you either need to or you don't.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Free Wifi first started to come about on buses in 2008, since 2009 all new regional orders for First/Stagecoach have had Free Wifi fitted. It may be seen as a gimmick but it's one of the many ways operators can increase bus use, same with USB charging.
Given the very poor patronage levels outside London, Wifi doesn't seem to be working that well as a way of getting people onto buses.
Not necessarily true. The vast majority of routes fitted with WiFi and USB charging are the busy, profitable routes. The countryside routes with poor patronage are normally the routes with older and less comfortable vehicles.
Surely we should be promoting anything that increases patronage, even if it's not something you'd use personally? Especially if like WiFi and USB chargers there is fairly limited cost on a new vehicle.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Your logic is slightly flawed there, there's far bigger factors to the lower bus patronage. Wifi isn't the only method of getting people on buses, it's just "one of" the many methods.
Not to forget many people who live in the country or villages these days are middle/upper class with a car who grew up in the city and then moved out, as such rural bus services become vital links for the few who don't drive and the elderly with the majority of people using the car. Simple fact of the matter is if you can't drive you're not going to move to a rural village.
My local route has had Wifi and USB charging for 3 years now and what a difference it makes, you see lots of people taking advantage of the USB charging and it's not uncommon for people to pick this route over others despite in most cases it being slower getting from A to B!
Although not in direct reply to any of the posters quoted the reason why Audio & Visual announcements are less common outside London is because tourism in most cities is much lower. You could argue that these systems are for the blind, while i would agree you'll typically find that if a blind person gets on a bus the driver is more than happy to help them and let them know when it's their stop. That being said i do hold the view that announcements should be standard on all new buses intended for city work.
Since WiFi has become commonplace on buses outside London, patronage has fallen. So they should be concentrating on things like having high specification vehicles running on time and with low fares. Revolutionary I know.
ValleyLines142
Established Member
I don't really see the need for Wifi on London buses at all, with perhaps the sole exception of the X26. As many others have said, most people are only on the bus in London for a very short time. Wifi is only handy on longer distance bus journeys such as the Severn Express, Stagecoach Cumbria's 555, Yorkshire Coastliner, Arriva North East's X15/X18/X21/X22, First Scotland's X95 etc, you get where I'm coming from.
I think USB charging points are a valued extra however.
I think USB charging points are a valued extra however.
And some London buses do provide that. Bizarrely on some of the shortest routes, for example the 507 and 521, where people plugging in and removing cables isn't really appropriate on these very crowded services, at least at peak times.
I tried the Arriva wifi once, it was so fiddly trying to sign up on a phone screen on a moving bus that I went straight back to 4G.
GoAhead (as used on Oxford and Carousel) is easier but if there are a lot of kids on the bus it is usually faster to use 4G.
USB charging is handy though, and I would consider it essential if I was using a ticketing app.
GoAhead (as used on Oxford and Carousel) is easier but if there are a lot of kids on the bus it is usually faster to use 4G.
USB charging is handy though, and I would consider it essential if I was using a ticketing app.
Surely high specification includes USB chargers and WiFi?
Those are not very expensive things to provide, which is why they are so commonly provided on vehicles which are otherwise built to low cost British-style specification. An articulated Citaro with air-conditioning but no Wfii is more expensive than your typical ADL bus with Wifi.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
Any articulated bus regardless of make costs more than it's rigid or decker counterpart! Further to this A/C is something not necessary in most of the UK.
IanD
Established Member
Don't make the assumption that just because you have something that such things are "near universal". I know plenty of people who have no data subscription (maybe even the cheapest subscription is beyond their means) so free wi-fi is a boon to them.
And for tourists, as someone else mentioned. London is a big tourist destination so maybe offering free wi-fi everywhere never mind just on buses wouldn't be a bad thing.
Neighbouring countries have air conditioned buses/trams despite having similar or even colder climate than in England. Almost all British trains, even very local trains such as London Overground, built since the mid 90s have air-conditioning.
But are these people likely to use the car instead if Wifi isn't provided? Tourists to Britain from outside the EU often buy prepaid SIM cards for their visit, which is what I do as well when going somewhere outside the EU roaming area.
- and London is a very expensive tourist destination* so of those that come, EU based tourists, (by far the majority of visitors) will be able to use their data allowance from their home country, longer distance visitors mostly come from wealthy countries, (US/Australia/Switzerland) wouldn't really be attracted to London, or even London buses because of something like wi-fi.
Wi-fi might be apppropriate in tourist hot spots like the spanish costas or Greek resorts because of the tourist demographic that they aim to attract, but London isn't like that at all.
Even with the collapsing value of the pound, it still ranks very high, especially on the accommodation cost charts.
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