Delay Repay on Split Ticket with restricted choice of trains

I was delayed by 30 minutes on my journey from A to C, using split tickets from A -> B and B -> C. The delay was due to a cancellation which meant I had to take the next train, stopping at both B and C.

Had I bought a single through ticket from A -> C, I would have had a wider choice of trains to choose from and would therefore have only been delayed by 15 minutes.

Which delay would be used for the purposes of calculating Delay Repay? The actual time I was delayed (due to a combination of the cancellation & the fact I chose a ticket with fewer alternative travel options), or would it be what the delay to my journey would have been if I didn't purchase the more restrictive split ticket?

You'll probably have an argument or two depending on the TOC, but Delay Repay is based on what actually happened. So if your delay was for one hour, it doesn't matter if a different ticket would have allowed for a delay of only 15 minutes, it only matters that your ticket(s) required you to wait an hour.

That said, I think in your case I'd have gone to staff, if present, and asked if they would endorse your tickets to allow travel on the non-stop service, particularly if it was the same TOC. This might be the root of any pushback you will get.

rootage said:

I was delayed by 30 minutes on my journey from A to C, using split tickets from A -> B and B -> C. The delay was due to a cancellation which meant I had to take the next train, stopping at both B and C.

Had I bought a single through ticket from A -> C, I would have had a wider choice of trains to choose from and would therefore have only been delayed by 15 minutes.

Which delay would be used for the purposes of calculating Delay Repay? The actual time I was delayed (due to a combination of the cancellation & the fact I chose a ticket with fewer alternative travel options), or would it be what the delay to my journey would have been if I didn't purchase the more restrictive split ticket?

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The delay used is that actually experienced. Assuming the services that run non-stop from A to C are run by a different company (call them B) to the company that runs the stopping services (call them A), you had effectively purchased an "A Trains Only" ticket. The situation certainly wouldn't be under any dispute if that were the case.

If you have any issues getting the compensation you are entitled to, appeal the matter further and let us know. But I'd like to hope that no company is incompetent enough to ignore the fact your combination of tickets wasn't valid on any earlier itinerary.

Bletchleyite said:

You'll probably have an argument or two depending on the TOC, but Delay Repay is based on what actually happened. So if your delay was for one hour, it doesn't matter if a different ticket would have allowed for a delay of only 15 minutes, it only matters that your ticket(s) required you to wait an hour.

That said, I think in your case I'd have gone to staff, if present, and asked if they would endorse your tickets to allow travel on the non-stop service, particularly if it was the same TOC. This might be the root of any pushback you will get.

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I'd be disappointed if any TOC meaningfully suggested you can't claim for the delay you actually experienced - although I'm aware that some TOCs' automated claim processing systems seem to simply take the end to end journey to find the next available itinerary, and ignore any restrictions applying to the ticket (such as route or company restrictions).

As for your latter suggestion, I think it is, frankly, a ridiculous notion - that you can have your claim rejected for not asking for a key condition of your tickets to be waived. Above all else, it's simply not a practicable suggestion for many passengers - as a high percentage of passengers will be travelling from stations that are unstaffed and/or on DOO services.

rootage said:

Which delay would be used for the purposes of calculating Delay Repay? The actual time I was delayed (due to a combination of the cancellation & the fact I chose a ticket with fewer alternative travel options), or would it be what the delay to my journey would have been if I didn't purchase the more restrictive split ticket?

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Just because you may use two tickets to make one journey, doesn't mean you must do so. You can still make two separate journeys if you want. How delayed where you in arriving at B? If you are concerned that you aren't entitled to any compensation at all for the A-C journey, it could be more advantageous to treat your journey as being split into two separate A-B and B-C journeys for the purposes of delay repay compensation.

Bletchleyite said:

That said, I think in your case I'd have gone to staff, if present, and asked if they would endorse your tickets to allow travel on the non-stop service, particularly if it was the same TOC.

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I'd definitely agree with this, but understand that not everyone may be comfortable doing that.

rootage said:

I was delayed by 30 minutes on my journey from A to C, using split tickets from A -> B and B -> C. The delay was due to a cancellation which meant I had to take the next train, stopping at both B and C.

Had I bought a single through ticket from A -> C, I would have had a wider choice of trains to choose from and would therefore have only been delayed by 15 minutes.

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Is this because the trains from A -> C were not passing through B, and you needed to stick to the route for which your split ticket were valid?

ForTheLoveOf said:

As for your latter suggestion, I think it is, frankly, a ridiculous notion - that you can have your claim rejected for not asking for a key condition of your tickets to be waived. Above all else, it's simply not a practicable suggestion for many passengers - as a high percentage of passengers will be travelling from stations that are unstaffed and/or on DOO services.

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It was more of a general point than with regard to the Delay Repay entitlement itself, and could equally apply to someone with a "TOC Only" ticket who might have experienced a long wait.

I always have a chat with the station staff when this happens. I have to say that their advice, in my cases, usually proves the point that compensation is due because no alternatives were forthcoming, but that doesn't make it any less good practice than to have a chat.

I'm reminded of one occasion where I had a London to Nottingham EC & Connections Advance on the 1609 London KX to Newark North Gate with a change of trains at Grantham for Nottingham. The 1609 was cancelled and while an earlier service was available it wasn't made clear that I could run and catch it by information on the station screens, on NRE or on the company twitter. As such I asked the gateline staff who couldn't help me and directed me to to the information desk or ticket office who could advise further. No problem I thought. Having missed the preceding train while stood in the KGX ticket office queue and having had the 1609 cancelled I asked the ticket clerk what I was to do. I pointed out that an East Midlands Trains service to Nottingham would see me arrive either early or on time (I can't remember exactly what now, but certainly not significantly later than planned). This was of course refused. No surprises. The clerk had put London to Nottingham via Grantham into his journey planner and it suggested a train some time later from London to Grantham, which I was told I must use. I suggested I should instead join the next EC service to Grantham. I was told this was explicitly not allowed, and that if I did this, I would be charged for a new Anytime Single from London to Grantham. I said I thought that seemed odd as it increased the risk of missing the next Grantham to Nottingham connection, and was told that if I didn't like that I shouldn't buy Advance tickets. Whatever. So I waited, allowing one train then another then another (one was the 1548 HT though, admittedly) to go to Grantham before joining the appointed service. This then just missed the next Grantham to Nottingham connection, so I had a wait there as well. Once all of this was explained to the as was EC Customer relations they paid the (rather large) compensation bill to me. There was never any real recognition of why I was over two hours late, though, and the answer was plain to me - because I followed the advice I was given at the ticket office.

In another case I had a ticket that was only valid on Northern trains (I don't remember what but perhaps it was a £10 promotional Northern Only Day Ranger). Anyway, my train from Preston to Manchester Piccadilly was cancelled, and I waited for the next Northern train (quite a while) at the direction of the staff at Preston, who had said no ticket acceptance was in place. I was told by Northern that I wasn't delayed, because there had been a TransPennine Express service which would have arrived at Manchester Piccadilly less than half an hour after my booked time. It took quite a while to make Northern understand that they still had to pay the delay compensation in this circumstance.

It's a valid claim.

But I also agree with others that it's prudent to talk to staff when delays occur. If they say you must stick to the strict terms of a ticket (which may require calling at a particular station, or travelling with a particular train company etc) then you can quote that advise in the event that your claim is refused.

Thanks everyone - much appreciated! In my case, I was traveling with the same TOC for both legs of the journey, but only some of the trains stop at the intermediate station that I had bought a split ticket to.

My concern was that there might have been some pushback from the TOC that had I bought the proper point-to-point ticket, I would not have been delayed for as long a time, and therefore been eligible for lower amount of Delay Repay. In other words, they might argue that I "delayed myself" by buying a cheap ticket with restricted travel options.

With regards to treating A -> B and B -> C as two separate journeys for the Delay Repay process, is there not a requirement to be at station B on time for the scheduled departure time of my train? In this case, I arrived late at station B due to the previous train cancellation (taking the next A -> B -> C train after the previous cancellation). However, there were no further delays on the B -> C leg of the journey which ran as timetabled. It doesn't feel fair to use the original timetabled departure time for B for Delay Repay as: (i) I was not actually there at the station at that time and (ii) I don't know whether there were actually other B -> C trains that would have been faster, had I arrived at station B at the scheduled time.

Thanks again!

rootage said:

Thanks everyone - much appreciated! In my case, I was traveling with the same TOC for both legs of the journey, but only some of the trains stop at the intermediate station that I had bought a split ticket to.

My concern was that there might have been some pushback from the TOC that had I bought the proper point-to-point ticket, I would not have been delayed for as long a time, and therefore been eligible for lower amount of Delay Repay. In other words, they might argue that I "delayed myself" by buying a cheap ticket with restricted travel options.

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Delay Repay applies to the tickets held and journey made; they can't say "If you had bought a more flexible ticket for your journey, your journey would not have been delayed, so we aren't paying out"

rootage said:

With regards to treating A -> B and B -> C as two separate journeys for the Delay Repay process, is there not a requirement to be at station B on time for the scheduled departure time of my train? In this case, I arrived late at station B due to the previous train cancellation (taking the next A -> B -> C train after the previous cancellation). However, there were no further delays on the B -> C leg of the journey which ran as timetabled. It doesn't feel fair to use the original timetabled departure time for B for Delay Repay as: (i) I was not actually there at the station at that time and (ii) I don't know whether there were actually other B -> C trains that would have been faster, had I arrived at station B at the scheduled time.

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You are contractually entitled to use two or more tickets for one journey. Your journey was from A to C using two tickets.

It's that simple.

Make sure this is made clear in any claim. Include a list of the tickets in tabular format, along with your intended vs actual itinerary in tabular format. Do not say anything that may cause confusion and do not over-complicate this simple claim.