The Planner
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104m on the down, 131m on the up. You could probably extend the down platform back now the foot crossing is closed.
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LNR new WCML timetable, May 2019 (in open data feeds)
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Southern Dvr
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I suspect the idea is to do this without any infrastructure costs though.
Furthermore if I recall Stone is on a sweeping curve so I would imagine despatch on anything over 4 cars (even if platforms allowed) would be far from ideal.
Furthermore if I recall Stone is on a sweeping curve so I would imagine despatch on anything over 4 cars (even if platforms allowed) would be far from ideal.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Not wishing to start a thread on a certain nasty 3 letters as we've had enough of that already, but the Aventras are to be camera-fitted, which negates "curved platform" issues as the staff dispatching (could guards use them in a cab?) can see a view of all coaches. SDO could presumably also be used if doors off the platform aren't an issue purely for the reason of being doors off the platform.
I've long thought that having a view of bodyside cameras the guard could use would be a good way of using that technology to enhance safety in some locations.
The location of the neutral section would make this more troublesome than it might otherwise be. I also don't think there is any need, desire or will to stop longer than 4 car trains at Stone. Any benefits would be massively outweighed by the infrastructure limitations and cost of works to get them to fit.
Stone passengers would benefit far more from a half hourly service but then the question becomes "from where to where?". I think Stone passengers are stuck with an hourly service for the foreseeable future. It's a regular service and a quick one stop to Stoke or Stafford to change for a fast train: next stop London. I don't think they can really knock that.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I've not heard anything to fully confirm where they will be going other than that the Trent Valley services will be 8-car Class 350 sets.
Its also not just Stone on that branch. Theres also Kidsgrove and Alsager to consider. There's just not the demand for longer trains along there anyway. Can't see it happening. All the while they've got 4 car units it would make sense to keep a few aside for that branch and put the 5s where the infrastructure supports them and the footfall demands them.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There is, but Stone is the only station that is only served by these trains. Kidsgrove has the Northern service plus the EMT, and Alsager the EMT.
FrodshamJnct
Established Member
Hmm £72 for a return from RUN to EUS. It’s only the best part of 4 hours on an uncomfortable 350!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I have no idea where you got £72 from - was it 2 Advances?
The return fares are:
LNR Only / VT (Any Permitted)
Anytime £125 / £325 (sorry, corrected)
Off Peak £46.70 / £89.60
Super OP £35 / not offered
4 hours on a 350, which in my view if it's a /1 or /3 is more comfortable than a Pendolino, is definitely worth **£200** saving to me. The Off Peak/Super Off Peak potentially being half the price is also worth consideration.
Also, you don't have to take the through service if time is of the essence - change at Crewe to take about an hour off. That gives you a journey time not dissimilar to the pre-Pendolino times, and at prices that in number terms are very similar (and therefore in real terms are about half the price of back then).
RealTrains07
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730s will be 5 coaches rather than 4 so i presume no??
Bletchleyite
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They are equivalent to a 6-car Desiro, but I don't know where the maximum is (with SDO) other than that it's not under 80m.
FrodshamJnct
Established Member
Yep, 2 advance singles. Outbound 3/6/19 0850, return 4/6/19 1733 as an example. Definitely worth the saving if you’ve the time, but I find the Pendolinos to be much more comfortable.
Deafdoggie
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Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant, when rail services restarted at Stone, when London Midland called with Euston services initially there was talk of XC so there was a Birmingham service too
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
You can use those trains for £46.70 if you buy an Off-Peak Return (change at Crewe, 3 hour journey, come back on the 1746 arr Runcorn 2056).
Use any LNW/WMT train arriving Euston after 1000. No evening restrictions.
There is also a Travelcard version for £49.50 (Z1-6) - a very cheap add-on.
If you arrive at Euston after 1300 the fare comes down to £35 (Super Off-Peak Return).
2xAdvance Singles isn't always the cheapest fare.
agbrs_Jack
Member
Interesting...
Yet;
Usage:
145,000 = justifies 2tph
348,000 = 1 is fine.
:/
It was in latter Virgin XC days c.2006 ...it got as far as stopping a unit there to measure stepping distances etc.
Southern Dvr
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I gather Barlaston is to reopen at some point as well. Suggestion was it would be further along the line in-between the current station and Wedgwood which would officially close. That would only be served by these trains.
Deafdoggie
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I can’t see there is anywhere much to move it to. Given the fact you can see Barlaston platforms from Wedgwood platforms (and vice versa) there’s no real need to move it away from Barlaston village.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It would be VERY hard to justify Barlaston having more than 1tph unless for operational convenience (e.g. similar to that Merseyrail stops most trains at all stations anyway).
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You never know, the North Staffs loop might be the next London Overground... If you build it, they will come!
I think we probably do know, to be honest
RealTrains07
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Congleton to manchester is on the manchester line, a congested line thanks to the 4 virgin and cross country trains passing through every hour.
Timetabling i presume would be more of an issue compared to stone since the virgin trains (99% of the time) avoid stone since they have the faster line to use
ForTheLoveOf
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The issue with Stone is that if you call anything southbound there that's longer than the platform, it blocks not only the line that the service is on, but the Hixon lines. Those have 2tph of express Virgin services in each direction so certainly not something you want to disrupt. Stone platform 2 is 131m long so you can fit in a 5-car Aventra but nothing longer, unless you go for the uncouth 'reverse' SDO (with the front hanging off the platform). That causes capacity problems further down the line.
RealTrains07
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You wonder why they are closing 1 of them
RealTrains07
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We aint talking longer trains here. Their is no way its ever gonna be possible to support that. A second tph like their is now or smaller, thats what should be considered
RealTrains07
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I honestly cant see the usage at Barlaston being near the same amount as stone anyway, it could probably be missed mabye??
The Planner
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From and to where though? You are going to struggle to get one past Wolverhampton if you are looking at Brum.
ForTheLoveOf
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Perhaps, but where would such a service start and end on the north side? Stoke-on-Trent has only two south-facing platforms (the through ones), both of which already have a substantial number of services. It doesn't seem feasible to reliably turn around a train there. The single line between Alsager and Crewe is going to cause difficulties there, and even if that weren't an issue, you still have to fit in north of Stoke, which itself seems unlikely without a major signalling upgrade (given there are 7tph already, including three stoppers).
A new southbound bay platform at Stoke might be the easiest solution - but how expensive is that going to be? And just for 1tph?
That's without even considering the southern pathing and termination. Unfortunately Stone is one of those places that is doomed to have a poor service unless everyone else suffers (e.g. stopping every train there, or shortening longer services), simply through the geography of what was built.The other alternative is an inordinate and frankly unjustifiable level of infrastructure investment.
agbrs_Jack
Member
Have to call one of the XC services then. No one in Macclesfield asked for the non-stop XC to make calls there last May. Congleton needs 2 tph more than Macclesfield needs 4 tph.
What are the logistical challenges in running an 8 car 350 somewhere-Stoke then split to Kidsgrove, Alsager, Crewe / Congleton & Macclesfield.
Bletchleyite's comments did not appear to be based on whether service increases are possible, but whether they are needed. Regardless of logistics or feasibility, Congleton deserves more services than Stone, Kidsgrove & Alsager.
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