Driver's Ear Protection

choochoochoo · 16 Apr 2019

I saw a Train Operator wearing earmuff ear defenders whilst they were driving, and I don't blame them for doing so.

But I was wondering if this is officially sanctioned as I'd have thought it would impact the ability to hear audible cab warnings.

Not to mention making it difficult to use the phone to signaller/line controller.

RailUK Forums

philthetube · 16 Apr 2019

not sure about ear muffs but ear disposable ear plugs are provided on request.

bionic · 16 Apr 2019

There's no AWS on the underground and the equivalent of the DSD and vigilance (deadman / OPO alarm) does not work in the same way, so theres not really any vitally important in-cab warnings you could miss while wearing them.

DavyCrocket · 16 Apr 2019

bionic said:
There's no AWS on the underground and the equivalent of the DSD and vigilance (deadman / OPO alarm) does not work in the same way, so theres not really any vitally important in-cab warnings you could miss while wearing them.

On Automatic lines there are audible tones relating to speed that are relevant. The radio also has group calls which are broadcast.
However, most of these ear protectors only dampen continuous loud sounds, so the in cab may still be heard

Nym · 18 Apr 2019

bionic said:
There's no AWS on the underground and the equivalent of the DSD and vigilance (deadman / OPO alarm) does not work in the same way, so theres not really any vitally important in-cab warnings you could miss while wearing them.

There is however the PEA (Passenger Emergency Alarm) tones (Squark Box) that need to be audible.

bionic · 18 Apr 2019

Nym said:
There is however the PEA (Passenger Emergency Alarm) tones (Squark Box) that need to be audible.

They only cancel background noise so you'd definitely hear that. LU issue the plugs so it's clearly perfectly acceptable to wear them. Makes the hearing test for drivers a bit pointless though if you can pass it and then wear ear defenders!

Nym · 18 Apr 2019

Maybe they should concentrate a bit more on actually reducing the noise in the cabs and saloons.

It's actually difficult to hold a conversation on the Central Line sometimes with how loud it is in the saloon, let alone the cab when I could barely even hear myself think, let alone shout

choochoochoo · 19 Apr 2019

Nym said:
Maybe they should concentrate a bit more on actually reducing the noise in the cabs and saloons.

It's actually difficult to hold a conversation on the Central Line sometimes with how loud it is in the saloon, let alone the cab when I could barely even hear myself think, let alone shout

I await the day that tfl get sued by a long term commuter who suffered hearing loss.

Nym · 19 Apr 2019

choochoochoo said:
I await the day that tfl get sued by a long term commuter who suffered hearing loss.

Well you could always go measure the noise in the passenger saloon...

robbeech · 26 Apr 2019

choochoochoo said:
I await the day that tfl get sued by a long term commuter who suffered hearing loss.

As the passenger is there by choice this won’t get anywhere. It’s the same for public at live events.

rebmcr · 27 Apr 2019

robbeech said:
As the passenger is there by choice this won’t get anywhere. It’s the same for public at live events.

I don't know whether it has legal merit — but there is definitely an argument that there is no choice but to use the tube, on pain of unemployment.

robbeech · 27 Apr 2019

rebmcr said:
I don't know whether it has legal merit — but there is definitely an argument that there is no choice but to use the tube, on pain of unemployment.

Not usually, you had a physical choice, you could use a bus, or move closer etc etc. I see the argument but it’s not something that I think would have any weight behind it. Obviously the rules are completely different for staff. Exposure levels on the underground are high and long, I’m surprised it’s not compulsory to wear ear protection on some routes as the noise levels exceed the threshold and exposure time considerably. Maybe there are some grandfather rights or similar that TfL are excluded from this. I’d actually be interested to know.

Ianno87 · 27 Apr 2019

robbeech said:
As the passenger is there by choice this won’t get anywhere. It’s the same for public at live events.

And the back of tickets/booking Ts and Cs often have a reminder about the damage loud music can cause buried in the small print.

choochoochoo · 28 Apr 2019

Ianno87 said:
And the back of tickets/booking Ts and Cs often have a reminder about the damage loud music can cause buried in the small print.

This is why LU should really be warning passengers that they need to protect their ears. LU know the risks but aren't highlighting them to those who choose to use their service.

some bloke · 28 Apr 2019

choochoochoo said:
LU should really be warning passengers that they need to protect their ears.

Yes, and LU should say which parts of lines may pose a risk, and/or give indications of noise levels.
Then people have the choice whether to travel by other means.

The idea that "the passenger is there by choice" ignores the fact that people may not know the risk until it's too late.
There's no particular reason why someone could be expected to know what levels of exposure risk hearing damage.

Also people may, perhaps not unreasonably, assume that if there are no notices there is no risk.

Mojo · 28 Apr 2019

I’ve never been on a train where the noise levels are unbearable.

some bloke · 28 Apr 2019

Mojo said:
I’ve never been on a train where the noise levels are unbearable.

The important thing is the effect rather than the experience.

Mojo · 28 Apr 2019

I’m not convinced, I think people like to exaggerate.

choochoochoo · 28 Apr 2019

Audiologists seem to recommend hearing protection....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london-42840140/is-tube-travel-damaging-your-hearing

Nym · 28 Apr 2019

Mojo said:
I’ve never been on a train where the noise levels are unbearable.

I'd say that any unacceptable level is too high rather than unbearable. And a lot of the Central Line around the east end particularly are unacceptably loud to the point I have to shout to be heard by someone in the next seat.

choochoochoo · 29 Apr 2019

The 22:25 BBC London news just did another article on this.

LU still think the noise levels are ok !

LeeLivery · 29 Apr 2019

I don't find it to be a problem apart from occasionally on the "new" end of Jubilee line. A few times it has been awfully loud between Canada Water and North Greenwich, making my ears hurt. It must be one of the loudest metro lines in the world.

Esker-pades · 30 Apr 2019

If I was a driver for LU, I'd wear some form of ear protection. If I forget my proper headphones/eaplugs, I have to stick my fingers in my ears for most of the time.

londonboi198o5 · 2 May 2019

FelixtheCat said:
If I was a driver for LU, I'd wear some form of ear protection. If I forget my proper headphones/eaplugs, I have to stick my fingers in my ears for most of the time.

you would be surprised how quiet the cabs can be

choochoochoo · 2 May 2019

londonboi198o5 said:
you would be surprised how quiet the cabs can be

Any chance they can make the passenger saloon as quiet ?

Tube driver · 2 May 2019

Not sure why you’d think the cab is any quieter. The cab doors don’t seal any better than in the saloons and it can be bl**dy loud over certain sections. It is certainly a bone of contention among drivers and the issue is raised constantly.

LUL offer ear bud thingies for drivers (many drivers supply their own ear defenders) but you risk not hearing radio messages coming over the in-cab speaker (which can be hard to hear under normal circumstances let alone with ear protection in).

rebmcr · 2 May 2019

Tube driver said:
Not sure why you’d think the cab is any quieter. The cab doors don’t seal any better than in the saloons and it can be bl**dy loud over certain sections. It is certainly a bone of contention among drivers and the issue is raised constantly.

LUL offer ear bud thingies for drivers (many drivers supply their own ear defenders) but you risk not hearing radio messages coming over the in-cab speaker (which can be hard to hear under normal circumstances let alone with ear protection in).

I use my Bose QC35 headphones in the passenger saloon. They're designed to noise-cancel in an aircraft cabin but they work wonders on the really noisy tube sections too.

I wonder whether the radio equipment allows the use of standard 3.5mm/6.3mm plugs? A driver could even attach a small Bluetooth convertor to such a standard socket, and not worry about trailing wires.

Tube driver · 2 May 2019

Connect radio has no connection points for other equipment to be attached and besides, no electronic devices should be on whilst driving. (Interesting point on noise cancelling earphones and whether it would be classed as an electronic device or not. I imagine it’s a no though as its all to easy to play music or whatever and it doesn’t look good to the general public who’ll think we’re listening to music and not just cancelling the noise).

rebmcr · 2 May 2019

Tube driver said:
Interesting point on noise cancelling earphones and whether it would be classed as an electronic device or not. I imagine it’s a no though as its all to easy to play music or whatever and it doesn’t look good to the general public who’ll think we’re listening to music and not just cancelling the noise

You'd have to paint the earcups orange.

Rogmi · 4 May 2019

At one time, LU used to issue ear defenders on request. These were the normal "proper" headphone shape, not buds. They were designed to blank out a lot of the noise but still allow the normal cab sounds (radio, alarms, etc.) to be heard.

Ear plugs were also available on request

I didn't like either sort, but they did keep some of the "wheel squeal" noise down to a reasonable level.

Normal headphones were not allowed because they didn't meet the specification and could block / muffle the cab sounds. Using mp3 players in the cab was banned anyway. Some 12 years ago, there was talk of trialling ear defenders that would allow mp3 players to be used, but I don't think anything came of that.

Driver's Ear Protection

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