Inadequate Train Capacity Northern

Eric · 18 Apr 2019

I'm away with the wife but my brother just called to say he is on the 21.43 Bradford to Leeds and its only a class 153 and its delayed due to too many people trying to get on it.

Why would Northern even think a 153 is suitable for a journey between two of the biggest cities in the North.

Are northern having problems with units to fill diagrams? I find it disgraceful that they are allowed to run trains with limited capacity for this big city to city routes.

Disgraceful.

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LAX54 · 18 Apr 2019

Although TRUST has it as following / regulated for late 2118 ex Leeds, which in turn was delayed by the 2108 ex Leeds after a unit swap from a 142 to a 150

cactustwirly · 18 Apr 2019

Eric said:
I'm away with the wife but my brother just called to say he is on the 21.43 Bradford to Leeds and its only a class 153 and its delayed due to too many people trying to get on it.

Why would Northern even think a 153 is suitable for a journey between two of the biggest cities in the North.

Are northern having problems with units to fill diagrams? I find it disgraceful that they are allowed to run trains with limited capacity for this big city to city routes.

Disgraceful.

They probably didn't, but that was probably all they had, afterall a 153 is better than jack all!
In the long term Northern is getting loads of new trains, which should solve the problem.

In the South East, the 2221 London to Bedwyn is booked for a 2 car 165, and always leaves Paddington full and standing.
EMT have barely enough units, and are often scrambling around for stock for services

northernchris · 18 Apr 2019

This service is actually booked a 153, it's a way of getting the unit on the Huddersfield - Wakefield shuttle back to Leeds

Llanigraham · 18 Apr 2019

Eric said:
I'm away with the wife but my brother just called to say he is on the 21.43 Bradford to Leeds and its only a class 153 and its delayed due to too many people trying to get on it.

Why would Northern even think a 153 is suitable for a journey between two of the biggest cities in the North.

Are northern having problems with units to fill diagrams? I find it disgraceful that they are allowed to run trains with limited capacity for this big city to city routes.

Disgraceful.

Would you prefer that they cancelled the train so there was no service?

Eric · 18 Apr 2019

northernchris said:
This service is actually booked a 153, it's a way of getting the unit on the Huddersfield - Wakefield shuttle back to Leeds

Brave from Northern then.

What's the total capacity of a 153?

hexagon789 · 18 Apr 2019

Eric said:
Brave from Northern then.

What's the total capacity of a 153?

Varies I think from 66 to 72.

Edit: Northern's are 72-seaters according to Platform 5.

Eric · 18 Apr 2019

hexagon789 said:
Varies I think from 66 to 72.

Edit: Northern's are 72-seaters according to Platform 5.

Cheers. The problem with Leeds-Bradford services on an evening is that there are no Forster Square services so the Interchanges can be heavily loaded.

Glenn1969 · 18 Apr 2019

That service then carries on as 2N38 Leeds to Sheffield all stations stopper via Moorthorpe. Very brave of Northern to have a 153 on a Meadowhall train even late at night I would have though

hexagon789 · 18 Apr 2019

Eric said:
Cheers. The problem with Leeds-Bradford services on an evening is that there are no Forster Square services so the Interchanges can be heavily loaded.

I should think it warrants at least a 150 if not a double 153. Maybe when Northern get all their new and transferred trains in they'll be able to augment this service.

Eric · 18 Apr 2019

Glenn1969 said:
That service then carries on as 2N38 Leeds to Sheffield all stations stopper via Moorthorpe. Very brave of Northern to have a 153 on a Meadowhall train even late at night I would have though

Same with the Leeds - Bradford one. Sounds like tonight might be an isolated incident but you would hope Northern running these services take note of the heavy loadings.

Matt_pool · 19 Apr 2019

I've been on a Northern 2 car Pacer on the last train back from Manchester Oxford Road to Liverpool several times on a Friday and Saturday night.

Standing room only, crammed in like sardines, nose to armpit, with mostly drunk people all the way to Warrington Central where most people get off.

It's been going on for years and years, but you just get used to it!

Northern always come up with some excuse, but they don't really give two hoots!

_toommm_ · 19 Apr 2019

Glenn1969 said:
That service then carries on as 2N38 Leeds to Sheffield all stations stopper via Moorthorpe. Very brave of Northern to have a 153 on a Meadowhall train even late at night I would have though

After half 9/10 when all the staff have gone home, there's barely anyone at Meadowhall train station - even with the cinema open to nearly midnight.

Carlisle · 19 Apr 2019

Matt_pool said:
It's been going on for years and years, but you just get used to it!

Northern always come up with some excuse, but they don't really give two hoots!

The schools in many areas not finishing until Thursday appeared to put more pressure on yesterday’s travel than happens at the likes of Christmas etc, where holidays often begin a few days before

yorksrob · 19 Apr 2019

northernchris said:
This service is actually booked a 153, it's a way of getting the unit on the Huddersfield - Wakefield shuttle back to Leeds

It's also worth bearing in mind that the Huddersfield - Wakefield is often a 2 carriage sprinter/pacer anyway.

dk1 · 19 Apr 2019

hexagon789 said:
Varies I think from 66 to 72.

Edit: Northern's are 72-seaters according to Platform 5.

You can probably have a similar amount standing. Often the case here in East Anglia. "Move down the car & breath in please" :lol:

Killingworth · 19 Apr 2019

yorksrob said:
It's also worth bearing in mind that the Huddersfield - Wakefield is often a 2 carriage sprinter/pacer anyway.

But on a Saturday with Huddersfield playing at home they can still run a 153 when Pacers are in sidings seemingly doing nothing, that 153 rammed full with exuberant visiting fans in full voice.

The busiest day of the week on the Hope Valley is Saturday yet the 9.14 and 10.14 trains regularly leave Sheffield so full travellers are in danger of being left on the platform. Further along the line it can be difficult to get aboard unless any have got off.

It remains to be seen how all the refurbished and new trains cope, but on the Hope Valley line in the 1950s the standard stopping train had 3 coaches and longer walkers specials were operated. The more frequent hourly service of single Pacers is now stretched.

yorksrob · 19 Apr 2019

Killingworth said:
But on a Saturday with Huddersfield playing at home they can still run a 153 when Pacers are in sidings seemingly doing nothing, that 153 rammed full with exuberant visiting fans in full voice.

The busiest day of the week on the Hope Valley is Saturday yet the 9.14 and 10.14 trains regularly leave Sheffield so full travellers are in danger of being left on the platform. Further along the line it can be difficult to get aboard unless any have got off.

It remains to be seen how all the refurbished and new trains cope, but on the Hope Valley line in the 1950s the standard stopping train had 3 coaches and longer walkers specials were operated. The more frequent hourly service of single Pacers is now stretched.

True, but this has always been the case. For years I used to cram on the 20:30ish Man Vic - Leeds train on a Saturday. Nearly always 2 carriages. Sometimes Sprinter (standing room only) sometimes pacer (physically impossible to get any more on). Always past fleets of DMU's in Newton Heath.

It's why I switched to EMT on the Hope Valley route, although this is doubtless soon to be screwed up, along with the rest of that franchise.

yorksrob · 19 Apr 2019

cactustwirly said:
They probably didn't, but that was probably all they had, afterall a 153 is better than jack all!
In the long term Northern is getting loads of new trains, which should solve the problem.

We're getting a number of new and reconditioned units. We're also losing a number of units and railcars. Whether this turns Northern into the land of milk and honey at the end of it all, remains to be seen.

Ken H · 19 Apr 2019

this is down to the government imposing a 2 for 3 policy when replacing modernisation plan DMU with sprinters. And the early Northern franchises being let on a no growth basis. The North has been trying to catch up ever since.

Ken H · 19 Apr 2019

yorksrob said:
We're getting a number of new and reconditioned units. We're also losing a number of units and railcars. Whether this turns Northern into the land of milk and honey at the end of it all, remains to be seen.

bet is doesnt.

Andyh82 · 19 Apr 2019

Eric said:
I'm away with the wife but my brother just called to say he is on the 21.43 Bradford to Leeds and its only a class 153 and its delayed due to too many people trying to get on it.

Would a train at that time usually be busy? Midweek, note towards Leeds not from Leeds, too late for people going out...

yorksrob · 19 Apr 2019

Ken H said:
bet is doesnt.

I decline your wager :lol:

Ken H · 19 Apr 2019

Andyh82 said:
Would a train at that time usually be busy? Midweek, note towards Leeds not from Leeds, too late for people going out...

so no-one goes for a night out in Bradford? I think many go there for a curry.

hexagon789 · 19 Apr 2019

dk1 said:
You can probably have a similar amount standing. Often the case here in East Anglia. "Move down the car & breath in please"

Sounds like the Tube more than heavy rail! :lol:

Eric · 19 Apr 2019

Andyh82 said:
Would a train at that time usually be busy? Midweek, note towards Leeds not from Leeds, too late for people going out...

It was last night.

I only posted because the Leeds/Bradford route is busy right up till the last trains of the night with the exception of the last departure after midnight.

I’d love to know Northern’s thinking why they think a 153 is deemed suitable for such a busy corridor.

There’s no alternative via Forster Square at this time remember.

JohnB57 · 19 Apr 2019

Ken H said:
so no-one goes for a night out in Bradford? I think many go there for a curry.

Interesting that you seem to think curries are all that Bradford can offer. Sadly, you may be right...

northernchris · 19 Apr 2019

Eric said:
It was last night.

I only posted because the Leeds/Bradford route is busy right up till the last trains of the night with the exception of the last departure after midnight.

I’d love to know Northern’s thinking why they think a 153 is deemed suitable for such a busy corridor.

There’s no alternative via Forster Square at this time remember.

I've used a few services from Bradford Interchange to Leeds after 2100 lately, the most recent being around 2 weeks ago and they were only around 5 passengers in the carriage I was in. I suspect on a normal Thursday a solo 153 is more than adequate for the loadings

Bovverboy · 19 Apr 2019

northernchris said:
I've used a few services from Bradford Interchange to Leeds after 2100 lately, the most recent being around 2 weeks ago and they were only around 5 passengers in the carriage I was in. I suspect on a normal Thursday a solo 153 is more than adequate for the loadings

In my own local area (Manchester) late trains are busy only on Fridays and Saturdays.

johntea · 20 Apr 2019

Sounds adequate enough, if slightly uncomfortable for a 10 mile trip

There are also plenty of options from Forster Square, they just involve changing at Shipley

Inadequate Train Capacity Northern

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