Trivia - signals that never change.

vidal · 19 Apr 2019

Following on from this thread - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trivia-signals-that-never-show-green.180040/

Are there any signals which have not changed aspect for years? I seem to recall that when a line is lifted the junction is still signalled as it's easier to show a signal at danger than resignal the area. So, what's the longest - and do the bulbs need changing? Are the other aspects ever tested even though they will never be used again?

James

RailUK Forums

Elecman · 19 Apr 2019

The line connecting the former Silverdale branch to the WCML at Madeley has a signal that shoes red even though the actual connection has long been plain lined

ComUtoR · 19 Apr 2019

Fixed distants and Fixed reds don't change aspect. Limit of shunts stay at red and many ground position lights rarely change.

Y Ddraig Coch · 19 Apr 2019

Conwy has a fixed red that has never changed. It was from the days when Sunday trains used to shuttle to Conwy from Llandudno Junction and back using the up track to go down to Conwy to ensure it didn't continue on by mistake

MarkyT · 19 Apr 2019

vidal said:
Following on from this thread - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trivia-signals-that-never-show-green.180040/

Are there any signals which have not changed aspect for years? I seem to recall that when a line is lifted the junction is still signalled as it's easier to show a signal at danger than resignal the area. So, what's the longest - and do the bulbs need changing? Are the other aspects ever tested even though they will never be used again?

James

There's no need to 'resignal' neccesarily, but for a clean removal of redundant facilities there would be a requirement to alter the trackside equipment, interlocking and control panel or lever frame. The costs and practicalities of doing that can often be prohibitive however, especially for an installation with only a limited remaining life. Without such changes, detection circuits for plain-lined points can bypass the missing limit switches. Signals are proved red and alight to allow the release of route locking ahead of them through a former junction, so old signals on disconnected spurs still in the interlocking are often retained to allow the other remaining routes through the junction to be used.

tsr · 19 Apr 2019

Re. the OP’s question, as alluded to above, many shunt / ground position signals will virtually never be used in action.

Amongst the least-used must be some of the platform-to-platform shunts on busy mainlines, which are simply impractical under normal working, and also some of the semi-abandoned goods yards around the network. (For example, roughly in my area, Godstone Tip must have had the signals showing red for many years, including a main two-aspect signal.)

Selsdon has the disconnected Oil Sidings (formerly passenger infrastructure), which still have illuminated signals but are no longer on a running line.

MarkyT said:
There's no need to 'resignal' neccesarily, but for a clean removal of redundant facilities there would be a requirement to alter the trackside equipment, interlocking and control panel or lever frame. The costs and practicalities of doing that can often be prohibitive however, especially for an installation with only a limited remaining life. Without such changes, detection circuits for plain-lined points can bypass the missing limit switches. Signals are proved red and alight to allow the release of route locking ahead of them through a former junction, so old signals on disconnected spurs still in the interlocking are often retained to allow the other remaining routes through the junction to be used.

I do sometimes wonder why the signal head itself can’t be removed, with the signal replaced by a simple LED lamp in a location case (cabinet) or similar. That would surely reduce cabling, as well as the risk from the asset being left out in the open and able to fail.

Wirewiper · 19 Apr 2019

There's a red signal at the end of the Weymouth Tramway (at least I think it is still there), just before it joins the National Rail network. It hasn't changed to green since 1999.

Highlandspring · 19 Apr 2019

EN2030, EN5011 and EN5012 signals at the connection for the proposed STVA Yard at Bathgate have only ever been cleared during functional testing during the commissioning in 2010 and have been permanently route barred and never cleared since. EN2030 is a single aperture three aspect Dorman LED with position one junction indicator and associated position light with miniature alphanumeric route indicator while EN5011 and EN5012 are both Dorman LED position light signals, 5012 also having a miniature alphanumeric route indicator

MarkyT · 19 Apr 2019

tsr said:
I do sometimes wonder why the signal head itself can’t be removed, with the signal replaced by a simple LED lamp in a location case (cabinet) or similar. That would surely reduce cabling, as well as the risk from the asset being left out in the open and able to fail.

I remember seeing such an arrangement somewhere, back in the days of filament lamps, although I can't recall where. The entire signal head as well as the lamp load had been hidden away in a location case!

b2311e · 19 Apr 2019

Unsure if it's still lit
Rock Ferry station has a signal on the disused platform at danger

BS56 · 19 Apr 2019

One of the most interesting ones are between Minister and Sandwich in Kent is EBQ 17 on the up line ( And there is another on the down line I believe) these are fixed at Green . Many of you may know about them but for the benefit of those who do not they were controlled by Richborough sidings signal box this was burnt down in 1988 since then the signal box is regarded as permanently " Switched out " and because the line was worked under absolute block they stay at green and do not go to red behind a train . As far as i know they are still like this and in recent years the signal head on EBQ17 has been renewed with a modern LED head still fixed at green. Why control has not been transferred to Minister box after all these years I do know but it means that two signals behind cannot show single Yellow either.

bramling · 19 Apr 2019

BS56 said:
One of the most interesting ones are between Minister and Sandwich in Kent is EBQ 17 on the up line ( And there is another on the down line I believe) these are fixed at Green . Many of you may know about them but for the benefit of those who do not they were controlled by Richborough sidings signal box this was burnt down in 1988 since then the signal box is regarded as permanently " Switched out " and because the line was worked under absolute block they stay at green and do not go to red behind a train . As far as i know they are still like this and in recent years the signal head on EBQ17 has been renewed with a modern LED head still fixed at green. Why control has not been transferred to Minister box after all these years I do know but it means that two signals behind cannot show single Yellow either.

There used to be signals at Whitchurch (Shropshire) which were permanently at green when the box was switched out, which towards the end was all the time. Very unnerving to see a train come past and the signal remain at green behind it.

BS56 · 20 Apr 2019

Further to the above the other signal is EBQ1 . I believe this signal shows a fixed double yellow aspect . Whilst fixed distants are common enough with single yellow, this double yellow one could be this signals claim to fame. But do not quote me on this one a visit to the site to see if changes behind a train maybe required.

ComUtoR · 20 Apr 2019

bramling said:
Very unnerving to see a train come past and the signal remain at green behind it.

We have one similar. You can fit 18 coaches past before it trips to red.

BigB · 20 Apr 2019

The old Avonmouth freight terminal line is still connected (though out of use and heavily overgrown) and protected by a red signal. Theoretically you could access this line via a road rail machine, so "protection" is required to prevent access to live running lines and whilst not perfect, you would need to deliberately pass a red signal.

The same is true with the Weymouth harbour line. 100m further toward the harbour is a gated road crossing allowing access, and so protection is required. Removal of the rails would negate the need for signal protection, but until then it is still required.

john.ump · 20 Apr 2019

Fixed Red signals at the end of bi-directional working may come under the kind of thing you're after. Essentially it's just a signal to call the route up to and then presumably switch ends. Must be quite a few of these around the network.

matchmaker · 20 Apr 2019

Greenloaning between Dunblane and Blackford is almost permanently switched out, so the running signals (semaphores apart from the distants, including co-acting arms) are never returned to danger.

martin2345uk · 20 Apr 2019

Skelton Junction in south Manchester seems to still have a red signal for the long disused line to Partington. I’m not sure anything’s been up there since the mid 90s?

Kneedown · 20 Apr 2019

The signal at Melbourne Jct that applied to trains joining the Castle Donington line from the Melbourne direction was illuminated long after the line closed in, I believe 1980. It was certainly still shining in the mid 90's!

lammergeier · 20 Apr 2019

There is a very unusual yellow LED GPL at Lawrence Hill in Bristol to control shunts out of the old yard. Being a modern LED type at a long disused yard I wouldn't be surprised if it has never shown anything other than Yellow.

GW43125 · 20 Apr 2019

Wirewiper said:
There's a red signal at the end of the Weymouth Tramway (at least I think it is still there), just before it joins the National Rail network. It hasn't changed to green since 1999.

Fun fact: it’s never shown green as the other aspect on that signal is yellow. But it’s changed once every year for testing.

30907 · 20 Apr 2019

matchmaker said:
Greenloaning between Dunblane and Blackford is almost permanently switched out, so the running signals (semaphores apart from the distants, including co-acting arms) are never returned to danger.

Must be almost the last box in that category - the other one I can think of is Stranraer Harbour (slightly odder, as a terminus).

Highlandspring · 20 Apr 2019

30907 said:
Must be almost the last box in that category - the other one I can think of is Stranraer Harbour (slightly odder, as a terminus).

Greenloaning is open again, Craigo was in the same position but is also open again. Hurlford is permanently switched out though...

bramling · 20 Apr 2019

30907 said:
Must be almost the last box in that category - the other one I can think of is Stranraer Harbour (slightly odder, as a terminus).

Bardon Mill I believe is switched out on a pretty much permanent basis.

matchmaker · 21 Apr 2019

Highlandspring said:
Greenloaning is open again, Craigo was in the same position but is also open again. Hurlford is permanently switched out though...

Hadn't realised that. Thaks for the information.

broadgage · 21 Apr 2019

tsr said:
Re. the OP’s question, as alluded to above, many shunt / ground position signals will virtually never be used in action.

Amongst the least-used must be some of the platform-to-platform shunts on busy mainlines, which are simply impractical under normal working, and also some of the semi-abandoned goods yards around the network. (For example, roughly in my area, Godstone Tip must have had the signals showing red for many years, including a main two-aspect signal.)

Selsdon has the disconnected Oil Sidings (formerly passenger infrastructure), which still have illuminated signals but are no longer on a running line.

I do sometimes wonder why the signal head itself can’t be removed, with the signal replaced by a simple LED lamp in a location case (cabinet) or similar. That would surely reduce cabling, as well as the risk from the asset being left out in the open and able to fail.

In some cases, yes the signal head could be removed, but there are situations where a "permanent red" must be clearly visible to the driver. Situations where moving past the signal is possible but dangerous or prohibited.

tsr · 22 Apr 2019

broadgage said:
In some cases, yes the signal head could be removed, but there are situations where a "permanent red" must be clearly visible to the driver. Situations where moving past the signal is possible but dangerous or prohibited.

I’m not talking about fixed reds on a running line, which as you rightly say are necessary. I’m talking about the abandoned spurs and sidings where signals are illuminated but trains cannot run.

apinnard · 22 Apr 2019

A long shot, but the disconnected and unused line between the Electrics and Mains between Romford and Chadwell Heath. Sorry, I don't know much about the specific line itself but doesnt it still have signals present in the gantry and a bit of ancient (disconnected at both ends) track still in situ?

Eccles1983 · 22 Apr 2019

Vitriol works sidings/loop

A lonely signal sits at red in the bushes.

Jonny · 4 May 2019

I came across this one on Youtube, by someone (else, obviously) who seems to be based in Kent/SE London. It seems from his channel that he gets out and about. On this one in particular,

including EV808 signal, which has most likely been maintained at danger for an extremely long time, just over a minute in.

Trivia - signals that never change.

Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

On Moderation

Established Member