some bloke
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Understandable, since the W seems implied in the (hastily-designed?) logo!
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Restrictions on new franchise names?
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Understandable, since the W seems implied in the (hastily-designed?) logo!
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I see the "W" far more clearly than I see the "N"!
some bloke
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Me too. I'm guessing it's supposed to be a weird lower-case n on the left: nW, but there's a better upper-case one on the right: WN.
The logo looks like something to do with West, at a stretch North, and not London.
Agreed, my earlier comment was intended as sarcasm to mock the decision to apply it in the first place. I have no problem with any language being applied to trains and signage if there is a need for it however I don't see that applies in this case.
theshillito
Member
So will Virgin Trains become West Coast Railway...oh wait...
I think it's an accepted truth that the DfT has the trademark on "LMS" for a reason...
anamyd
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Platform x for the xx:xx London Midland Scottish Railway service to...
transmanche
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Interestingly, whilst the DfT have trademarked London Midland & Scottish and LMS: they haven't trademarked London Midland Scottish Railway.
(Compared to the ECML where they trademarked London & North Eastern Railway and LNER.)
London, Midland and Scottish Railway. Come on guys let's get it right even if the DfT can't 
anamyd
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All the "harking back" TOC names seem to omit the "and", do they not...?London, Midland and Scottish Railway. Come on guys let's get it right even if the DfT can't
Helvellyn
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Yet we still got Greater Anglia rather than Great Eastern...
transmanche
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That may be, but it's the version with the ampersand that the DfT has registered.London, Midland and Scottish Railway. Come on guys let's get it right even if the DfT can't
Although the DfT registered Great Eastern Railway too, in March 2018.
(And FWIW, DfT registered East Midlands Trains and the EMT logo back in September 2018. No application for the name East Midlands Railway has yet been published.)
pdeaves
Established Member
Abstract thought: why do 'we' refer to LMS and LNER, but not (or less often) LMSR and LNE? Of the big four, the LMS seems most often not to have the R. Imagine the malachite green lot being the 'S'!
Any sign of Midland Railway? That would map quite nicely on to the East Midlands franchise, after all...
We seem to have adopted the branding that the companies themselves preferred. I'd imagine that the LMS chose that over LMSR because they didn't want to be seen as 'just' a railway company, but that's pure speculation.
krus_aragon
Established Member
In my new bedtime reading, London Midland & Scottish: A Railway in Retrospect, Hamilton Ellis writes:
In the opening chapter, he states that a traveler at Euston in the middle of 1923 would find "handbills and advertisements informing him of a corporation known as the London Midland & Scottish Railway Company, already wearing easily the initials LMS", before continuing to state that "the station, and the trains within it, would be the London & North Western, and would bear the initials thereof."
transmanche
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No, there's no sign of Midland Railway having been registered.
For locomotives at least, they were just labeled as Southern
Deepgreen
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The only names I would favour would be 'GB Rail', 'UK Rail', 'National Rail' or similar! The franchising system has failed and has widely been recognised as such (even by some in Government). Franchises need to revoked, or allowed to expire, and a national operator established. Then we can have a sensible, joined-up network, with the return of so many operating and other standards which have been dispensed with under the current regime. A national system with the passengers truly at the heart of the operation (rather than the shareholders) and a cohesive approach to fares, communications, rolling stock deployment and so on.
dk1
Veteran Member
There have been rumours of renaming but maybe when the fleet is transformed. Greater Anglia is an awful name & has been since introduced in 2012. Only thing that can soften it slightly is if they opt to put the 'jumping hare' logo over the top. Reminds me of the 'dancing stag' back in MML days.
Was BR ever really a ‘national system’? It always had interfaces and internal disputes didn’t it?
‘Passenger at heart’ - what on Earth makes you think nationalisation would give you that, rather than having operational convenience, Treasury parsimony and political expediency at heart?
Cohesive approach to rolling stock - you want the DfT speccing everything....coz they were great with the 800s and 700s weren’t they?
321over360
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Actually in 2004, the old GE, Anglia and WA names were retained by "One" as the reliveried trains were One Great Eastern, One Anglia and One West Anglia then this will all shelved when it was all rebranded as NXEA.
Personally having travelled on the GEML i miss the National Express Service on the train announcements as Greater Anglia Service (and for a while Greater Anglia Train for some crazy reason) never sounded good. But if i heard the next train to depart from platform 9 is the 1330 Great Eastern Service to Norwich it would sound so much better than the 1330 Greater Anglia Service to Norwich.
Personally the best branding in the South East was the Network SouthEast Branding which FGE mimicked on the 315s and 321s, and also by SWT in the early days too on their fleets, pity we cant go back to trains being branded on the old sectors
diffident
Member
I would say that it is pretty obvious when listening to a travel report on the radio, if the reporter says "Delays to TfW services from Cardiff Central", it would be pretty obvious what they were referring to. Similarly if they said; "TfW's 16:30 departure to Holyhead has been cancelled due to technical problems", that would also be widely understood.
Personally I prefer the new naming system. Tells you where each operator goes, no confusing branding gets in the way, and even when franchise changes hands it keeps the same name so you still know who the operator is and where they go. If companies want their name to be displayed then just do what crosscountry do and have “CROSSCOUNTRY by Arriva” on the trains.
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