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How far should social media teams go with repetitive answers?

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robbeech

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Please accept our apologies for your journey. If you can send your journey details, and a copy of your tickets to [email protected], and we can log your compliant. ^AC

TOCs have had a rough weekend with busy services due to more people travelling than comfortable capacity particularly on the ecml. Added to engineering works this has made it a difficult experience for passengers and staff alike. There are current threads about this disruption but I am more wondering how far TOCs should go when multiple people ask the same question. It must be tedious and must hinder them replying with useful info for specific questions but this afternoon LNER Twitter has descended into what can only be described as a complete waste of time. The above quoted message is the copy and pasted reply to almost every question or request whether it be useful or valid or not. It comes across very rudely and appears that AC has no intention of helping anyone. I’m convinced this isn’t the case but it comes across this way.
So whilst there are repetitive questions, it seems that this response is now being pasted to things that don’t even make sense.
 
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Ex31Rigger

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Perhaps AC is no longer at their desk, if LNER twitter is similar to ours in East London it is only manned by a small team and between certain hours. As you stated, with all the disruption over the bank holiday weekend, I imagine the amount of twitter requests for information is extremely high and possibly to great for even a fair sized team. Better to put a generic message out than to pull down the shutters!
 

robbeech

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It’s far from a complaint (or compliant as the message says). I know they’ve had a hard time and it’s mostly passengers who don’t understand the way the railway works. But it just seems that they gave up temporarily. I believe AC may be on their own. Perhaps they don’t have to work bank holidays, where have we heard that before :)
 

hwl

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It’s far from a complaint (or compliant as the message says). I know they’ve had a hard time and it’s mostly passengers who don’t understand the way the railway works. But it just seems that they gave up temporarily. I believe AC may be on their own. Perhaps they don’t have to work bank holidays, where have we heard that before :)
Looking at the Twitter feed AC say they are the only person on.
 

hwl

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And presumably they quite reasonably require periodic breaks - hence generic 'Out of Office' replies.
Indeed, but also not much logic can be brought via a limited number of characters to those ~50% complaining about busy trains when those complaining don't have reservations and are complaining about LNER letting those without reservations board...
Best explained in letters to each group later depending on the exact circumstances.
 

Ticket Man

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I've visited the social media desks for my TOC and replies like this can be issued out with the click of a button. Most TOC's that I have seen do have operating hours for their desks but don't usually have out of office replies across platforms like Twitter and Facebook.
I'll admit that the response they have put out has been used a tad too much but if their systems are anything like the ones I've seen, they should be able to have multiple reworded answers for the same response.
To see complaints though that it seems impersonal, well that adviser is probably dealing with 2 other live chats and all the other social media feed that comes in.
 

Megafuss

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TOCs have had a rough weekend with busy services due to more people travelling than comfortable capacity particularly on the ecml. Added to engineering works this has made it a difficult experience for passengers and staff alike. There are current threads about this disruption but I am more wondering how far TOCs should go when multiple people ask the same question. It must be tedious and must hinder them replying with useful info for specific questions but this afternoon LNER Twitter has descended into what can only be described as a complete waste of time. The above quoted message is the copy and pasted reply to almost every question or request whether it be useful or valid or not. It comes across very rudely and appears that AC has no intention of helping anyone. I’m convinced this isn’t the case but it comes across this way.
So whilst there are repetitive questions, it seems that this response is now being pasted to things that don’t even make sense.

They are doing the right thing. If they get bogged down with a back and forth as the rights and wrongs of what has happened then it takes time away from responding to other folk
 
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HullRailMan

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Although I can appreciate the frustration of the standing passengers, there is nothing the social media team can do in reality other than direct them to make a complaint. That way they can get a detailed response, something that is difficult to do via twitter.

As has been said, the issue seems to be people with flexible tickets without reservations and the perception that a ticket = a seat. To be fair, the ticket retailing systems could be much clearer at pointing out where a reservation is not possible. A number of tweeters have pointed out that they selected a certain train when purchasing their flexible ticket but didn’t get informed that seats were not available before making the purchase. While regular travellers may know this, infrequent ones won’t.
 

sprunt

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Indeed, but also not much logic can be brought via a limited number of characters to those ~50% complaining about busy trains when those complaining don't have reservations and are complaining about LNER letting those without reservations board...

Is there a typo here? You seem to be saying that people without reservations are complaining about people without reservations being allowed to board.
 

moogal

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For complaints, that sort of response is sensible as it enables them to log the personal details required privately without a stream of public tweets. However, I've seen some customer service accounts (not just rail ones) reply like this for any query at all!
 

hwl

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Is there a typo here? You seem to be saying that people without reservations are complaining about people without reservations being allowed to board.
No typo, lots of the complaints really were that silly /illogical. Hence very sensible to just send complaint link when it is going to take a couple of pages to explain and best received then things have calmed down a few days a later)

Lots of association from more occasional long distance travelers that booking a Ticket online in advance = seat available, they then thought there were problems with the website when they didn't get a seat reservation for the train they bought an open ticket for...
No Penny dropping moment of self awareness that no advance tickets, no reservations and only open tickets at high prices might indicate that "their" service would be rammed with themselves partly responsible for the crowding.
 

RLBH

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No typo, lots of the complaints really were that silly /illogical. Hence very sensible to just send complaint link when it is going to take a couple of pages to explain and best received then things have calmed down a few days a later)

Lots of association from more occasional long distance travelers that booking a Ticket online in advance = seat available, they then thought there were problems with the website when they didn't get a seat reservation for the train they bought an open ticket for...
No Penny dropping moment of self awareness that no advance tickets, no reservations and only open tickets at high prices might indicate that "their" service would be rammed with themselves partly responsible for the crowding.
And quite understandably so - if you buy a ticket for a flight, or a concert, or a football match, you're reserved a seat. If you travel by coach, you're reserved a seat. If you buy a cheap train ticket, you're reserved a seat.

Why, then, would the infrequent long-distance traveller assume that they wouldn't be reserved a seat when buying in advance? Especially when the booking engine has invited them to choose their trains?
 

68000

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And quite understandably so - if you buy a ticket for a flight, or a concert, or a football match, you're reserved a seat. If you travel by coach, you're reserved a seat. If you buy a cheap train ticket, you're reserved a seat.

Why, then, would the infrequent long-distance traveller assume that they wouldn't be reserved a seat when buying in advance? Especially when the booking engine has invited them to choose their trains?

Advance ticket holders are reserved a seat - it is your open, off peak and anytime ticket holders who do not have a reservation automatically assigned to them. Why would the sytem assign it to them anyway if they have not specified the train they want to travel on?
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Advance ticket holders are reserved a seat - it is your open, off peak and anytime ticket holders who do not have a reservation automatically assigned to them. Why would the sytem assign it to them anyway if they have not specified the train they want to travel on?
But not all Advance ticket holder have a specific seat reserved - quite a number (travelling on 'non-intercity' operators) have a notional seat allocated out of a database quota. So, not a reservation at all in any sense of the word!
 

SteveM70

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Northern’s Twitter feed is run in conjunction with the ctrl-c and ctrl-v keys
 

robbeech

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Advance ticket holders are reserved a seat - it is your open, off peak and anytime ticket holders who do not have a reservation automatically assigned to them. Why would the sytem assign it to them anyway if they have not specified the train they want to travel on?
But they DO specify exactly which train they want to travel on. This is the thing here.
They specify they want the 0900 from Edinburgh on the Friday and the 1600 from London on the Monday. They go to the trouble of saying that. They then say they want seats. They choose forward facing. Window. Near a luggage rack with a power socket in the quiet coach. Then then press ‘next’ and whilst the page jumps around and shows them a picture of a train and a man in a red coat and lots of other things, somewhere on that page in standard sized writing it says, sorry you’re fresh out of luck pal, ain’t no seats left on either leg of your journey. Then 9 rotations of the mouse wheel away is the ‘next’ button where it takes you to pay your Great British Pounds. If you don’t scroll all the way to the top and read every part of the page you can easily miss it. At no other point does it make it clear that despite you going through the seat options it hasn’t given you one. And the way to works varies by site and retailer. It’s then not until you turn up for the 0900 on the Friday at 0820 and collect your tickets at the tvm that you realise that despite doing your best you haven’t got a seat. A concept that many cannot grasp, and they can’t grasp it because quite frankly it’s not as obvious as it could be.

So why don’t retailers modify the front end of their websites to pop up a message saying ‘WARNING! no seats are available to reserve for your selected journey(s). Be advised that at busy times you may have to stand.’ And do not let people go further until they have acknowledged it?
The reason as far as I can tell is that if they did that, many people would say sod that for a lark we will go in the car or fly or the bus or stay at home and revenue would decrease.
Some retailers are much better at displaying this information that others but I think they could all do better to minimise the shock of this again
 
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Lots of association from more occasional long distance travelers that booking a Ticket online in advance = seat available, they then thought there were problems with the website when they didn't get a seat reservation for the train they bought an open ticket for...
No Penny dropping moment of self awareness that no advance tickets, no reservations and only open tickets at high prices might indicate that "their" service would be rammed with themselves partly responsible for the crowding.

Much like me last night. Bought an open ticket, requested reservations on the outward leg, only got one for the local train and not the long distance one. Just thought “website glitch”. I may now contact the TOC and enquire if all reservations are gone for the train I chose.
 

robbeech

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Northern’s Twitter feed is run in conjunction with the ctrl-c and ctrl-v keys

I wouldn’t know, I have been blocked recently for explaining the penalty fare regulations to someone where one was incorrectly issued. Clear financial gain from me being blocked. Such a shame.
 

SteveM70

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I wouldn’t know, I have been blocked recently for explaining the penalty fare regulations to someone where one was incorrectly issued. Clear financial gain from me being blocked. Such a shame.

I’ve had to have a second twitter account; I got blocked for pointing out they’d lied to someone.
 

robbeech

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I’ve had to have a second twitter account; I got blocked for pointing out they’d lied to someone.
I do (did) frequently correct them on things and that generally meant the passenger wouldn't have to pay, or could claim as a result. Alas, not for this topic.
 

whhistle

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Why, then, would the infrequent long-distance traveller assume that they wouldn't be reserved a seat when buying in advance? Especially when the booking engine has invited them to choose their trains?
There's a two pronged problem here.

The booking engine may ask times of travel (or get the customer to choose a specific train) so the customer can be sold the right ticket.

But if you're buying an "open ticket" then the booking engine doesn't know what train you're travelling on, so can't really make a reservation.

Again though, some of this would be solved by not having specific seat reservations.

The other option is going the way Virgin want - must have a reservation.
But then that takes away from flexibility and people having to faff about changing reservations, perhaps even two or three times.
 

RLBH

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But if you're buying an "open ticket" then the booking engine doesn't know what train you're travelling on, so can't really make a reservation.
When using (most) online booking engines, you do specify a train, so that the booking engine can make sure you're buying an appropriate ticket for the services you plan to use. Eminently sensible, given the existence of weird and wonderful validities.
 

Deepgreen

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The fundamental problem is with the railway's appalling lack of communications skills today. The whole arena of written, spoken and displayed information is a disgrace, and no matter how much the TOCs bleat about how much they "know that good information is so important", there is no real commercial incentive (which is what they respond to) to get it right. I made a journey today where I noted that:
1. Two out of the four trains I travelled on had no internal displays working and one had no external destination indicators working (and many more I saw from platforms had the same fault).
2. Two large classes of units (700 and 707) have invisible cab-end destination displays, and that's how they were designed (how were they even approved?!). Why is it allowed to have large numbers of visual indicators not working, when DDA requirements are supposedly vital to train type operation approval?
3. A system-wide early warning message about forthcoming engineering works contained two errors in one line (see attached)! This wasn't even a hurriedly-written live message but had been written well in advance!
4. The conductor on one train insisted on mumbling station approach messages which were then immediately repeated by the recorded messages.
5. Huge inconsistencies between different busy stations regarding information screens.

On top of that there are the awful template replies to e-mails which always apologise for the TOC being so much busier than normal, when the same automatic responses have been used for years (when does a level of 'busy-ness' lasting years become normal!?). Trying to obtain a specific response to a specific complaint or suggestion is well-nigh impossible. Contrast this with, say, supermarkets, which respond quickly and usefully to complaints because they exist in a genuine state of competition.

The whole railway network is beset by amateurish and passenger-unfriendly communications, and is steadily getting worse.
 

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whhistle

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When using (most) online booking engines, you do specify a train, so that the booking engine can make sure you're buying an appropriate ticket for the services you plan to use.
This is where it gets confusing.
You click on a specific service yes, but it's done for the option of Advance tickets on that particular service, so if then clicking on an off-peak return (for example), the reservation for that train is not taken forward through the booking process as seat reservations are not required for an off-peak ticket.
 

tiptoptaff

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This is where it gets confusing.
You click on a specific service yes, but it's done for the option of Advance tickets on that particular service, so if then clicking on an off-peak return (for example), the reservation for that train is not taken forward through the booking process as seat reservations are not required for an off-peak ticket.
I have never purchased an off-peak ticket online and not got accompanying reservations for the trains I chose.
 

CaptainHaddock

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TOCs have had a rough weekend with busy services due to more people travelling than comfortable capacity particularly on the ecml. Added to engineering works this has made it a difficult experience for passengers and staff alike. There are current threads about this disruption but I am more wondering how far TOCs should go when multiple people ask the same question. It must be tedious and must hinder them replying with useful info for specific questions but this afternoon LNER Twitter has descended into what can only be described as a complete waste of time. The above quoted message is the copy and pasted reply to almost every question or request whether it be useful or valid or not. It comes across very rudely and appears that AC has no intention of helping anyone. I’m convinced this isn’t the case but it comes across this way.
So whilst there are repetitive questions, it seems that this response is now being pasted to things that don’t even make sense.

Having worked in Customer Relations for a former TOC myself, I always tried to tailor my reply whether by email or letter, to address the customer's specific point. Unfortunately this meant that the number of letters and emails I was sending out was much lower than my colleagues who just cut and pasted standard responses, which as you'd expect, my manager wasn't happy about. In the end of course, I just ended up using standard responses myself, only being more specific if the workload was lighter (it rarely was!).

I don't use twitter but I would imagine the vast majority of twits (or whatever they're called) that get sent are from people with nothing better to do just having a whinge, so I can fully understand why the overstressed rail staff sometimes resort to generic repetitive responses.
 

mrcheek

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If you think that Twitter is an appropriate forum for making a proper complaint, then frankly, you dont deserve a reply.
 
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