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Amsterdam Eurostar

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Bald Rick

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Barcelona is one possible future destination, if the French ever get around to finishing that high speed line from Montpellier to Perpignan, and/or the LGV Nord shortcut via Amiens (LGV Picardie). Paris would be three and a half hours from Barcelona, so you'd be looking at about five and a half hours London–Barcelona.
The French haven’t started the Montpellier - Perpignan LGV, and aren’t likely to do so any time soon!

Also, it would be about 5 hours. It is 1100 km via Lyon; a non stop train from Gare de Lyon would be past Montpellier in about 3h15, and there is still another 350km to go. But the train couldn’t go that long non-stop a) for staffing reasons and b) there isn’t the market for it; it would need to stop for traffic (as the current Paris - Barcelona services do)
 
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ainsworth74

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I'm partly to blame for this but we're starting to wander off the topic slightly here. Let's get back to discussing the actual Eurostar Amsterdam service. Speculation regarding future services between London and the Continent should be posted to the Speculative Ideas sub-forum.
 

33Hz

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I've taken the Amsterdam service several times over the last year, both as a means to get to the Netherlands and a means to get a Brussels quicker. Mostly it was in the evening but a couple of times in the morning. In my experience the train is very lightly loaded after Brussels. I would be amazed if it was 45% unless they are all hiding at the other end. What's more the returning Eurostar service between Amsterdam and Brussels is very poorly marketed, I've actually seen one go through Brussels Noord empty.

In my opinion Eurostar missed a trick when ordering the e320s. Between the initial order and the follow on order DB got permission to run their ICE3s in multiple through the Channel Tunnel. Eurostar should have switched the follow on order to 14 shorter trains instead of 7 long ones. They could have split these at a point like Brussels or Lille to make better use of the capacity to serve Amsterdam and/or somewhere else just as Thalys does.
 

Class172

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What's more the returning Eurostar service between Amsterdam and Brussels is very poorly marketed, I've actually seen one go through Brussels Noord empty.
To my knowledge that is because there is no service from Amsterdam to Bruxelles yet; at least until the customs arrangements have been arranged for the journey. What you saw would have been an ECS working (a very long one) returning from Amsterdam.
 

Ianno87

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To my knowledge that is because there is no service from Amsterdam to Bruxelles yet; at least until the customs arrangements have been arranged for the journey. What you saw would have been an ECS working (a very long one) returning from Amsterdam.

It's a regular service from Amsterdam, but only as far as Brussels. I believe the morning train is bit more loaded.

Is it also to avoid the risk of the marketing backfiring - "Look, it's the London train that can't take you to London!"
 

dutchflyer

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1.the MAJOr part of air-traffic local AMS-LON is not to LHR, but all the 5 EZ-destinations. If you count them all together, EZ/U2 is since many years the main carrier (in pax-nrs). Yes, to LHR a major part of air/pax are in transit.
2.Fokker planes are out of service on KLM since over 1 year by now
3.I've done LON-AMS twice lst year on this new €*, both @ 40€/single (cheaper as the fare to BRU!), which is roughly also the airfare if booked wisely. Was quite satisfied with it-in fact I was so dissatisfied with the old €*-narrow cramped seating-all pax always heaped in some cars, often problems and delays on the way into BRU, that I left it for real railfans. Both trips were the late P.M. and indeed about half emptied out at BRU-though also taking new pax from there and it seemed both times most pax left at Rotterdam (where its relative position is much better vs air).
4.simply looking at facts: the COACH (long-distance bus) seems to be the main loser though- EUROlines has stopped alltogether on this route and FLIX is very seasonal now in its offer. Former OUI (yes, those French!) has teamed with Nat.express, but mostly now offers whatever they can hire cheaply on the local market, leading to sometimes disastrous bad service.
 

33Hz

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To my knowledge that is because there is no service from Amsterdam to Bruxelles yet; at least until the customs arrangements have been arranged for the journey. What you saw would have been an ECS working (a very long one) returning from Amsterdam.

Nope, it's a bookable service that as MisterT says only goes to Brussels.

upload_2019-4-22_15-14-37.png

It's a regular service from Amsterdam, but only as far as Brussels. I believe the morning train is bit more loaded.

It was a morning train that I saw!

Is it also to avoid the risk of the marketing backfiring - "Look, it's the London train that can't take you to London!"

Not only that, but it's a Eurostar that you cannot use a Eurostar "any Dutch station" ticket on.
 

urpert

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Eurostar should have switched the follow on order to 14 shorter trains instead of 7 long ones. They could have split these at a point like Brussels or Lille to make better use of the capacity to serve Amsterdam and/or somewhere else just as Thalys does.
Pretty certain that wouldn’t pass the Tunnel safety regs unless the ‘inner ends’ were gangwayed; don’t they have to be splittable with all passengers being able to be moved into one half of the train in case of a fire?
 

edwin_m

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Pretty certain that wouldn’t pass the Tunnel safety regs unless the ‘inner ends’ were gangwayed; don’t they have to be splittable with all passengers being able to be moved into one half of the train in case of a fire?
That was the original requirement, but I think DB got it agreed that they could run 200m trains in multiple. Presumably in a fire it would be at least as quick to move everyone into the service tunnel as walk them through the gangway into a coupled unit, which might not be possible anyway if the fire was near the inner end of the unit. Also, going by the HGV fires, as soon as the burning train stops the OLE is likely to melt and any nearby train will lose power, so either way the authorities are landed with evacuating a double train. The service tunnel is a place of safety and a train going the other way can be stopped to collect people, as the other track has independent ventilation and power supply so wouldn't be affected.
 

33Hz

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Pretty certain that wouldn’t pass the Tunnel safety regs unless the ‘inner ends’ were gangwayed; don’t they have to be splittable with all passengers being able to be moved into one half of the train in case of a fire?

Deutsche Bahn gets access to Channel Tunnel
German rail company Deutsche Bahn can now use its high-speed ICE trains to carry travelers through the Channel Tunnel. The decision paves the way for greater competition in the European rail sector.

Deutsche Bahn has been given the green light to carry passengers through the Channel Tunnel on its high-speed Inter-City Express (ICE) trains, the head of the Eurotunnel group announced in a press report on Wednesday.

"Deutsche Bahn fulfills all the conditions for transporting passengers via the tunnel," Jacques Gounon told the Financial Times Deutschland, adding that the German railway company was now welcome to do so.

The German company had previously been banned from using the tunnel because its trains did not meet special fire safety regulations, but that ban has now been lifted, a Eurotunnel spokeswoman told the newspaper.

The move is expected to increase competition in European rail sector. Until now Eurostar trains controlled by the French national railway SNFC were the only services permitted to carry passengers through the 38-kilometer (24-mile) tunnel linking France and Britain.

The high-speed Eurostar services link London, Brussels and Paris Brussels via the tunnel, and are owned by SNCF, Belgian railway SNCB and Eurostar Ltd, which is a subsidiary of London and Continental Railways.

Meanwhile, Eurotunnel bosses are reportedly looking to sell a 40 percent stake in their London & Continental rail company.

https://www.dw.com/en/deutsche-bahn-gets-access-to-channel-tunnel/a-5018915
 

jon0844

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It's a shame that since they brought a train to St Pancras for a PR event, they've all but given up on their ambitions to run trains.. which has of course meant that Eurostar still has no real competition from other rail operators.

Wasn't DB building trains specifically for travel to London? I assume they either cancelled the build, or they just became trains for use within Germany... (don't answer this; not the right thread!).
 

ainsworth74

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Gentle reminder that this is the Eurostar to Amsterdam thread not the DB to London thread. So could we please head back onto topic :)
 

BluePenguin

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What still annoys me is how the Amsterdam Eurostars run non stop from London to Brussels. It was very frustrating news. I had planned to take the inaugural service last year but could not make it into London eary enough so never did.

Not everyone lives in London and getting there with suitcases is extra time and hassle.
A stop at Ashford or Ebbsfleet would save me and those of us in Kent/Sussex at least 2 hours. The headline journey times mean nothing to us at all when getting to St Pancras plus check in takes the same amount of time to get to an airport and fly.

The option of changing trains at Lile and Brussles is even less appealing than doing so in England. I wish they made the Amsterdam services more accessible!
 

Class172

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It's a regular service from Amsterdam, but only as far as Brussels. I believe the morning train is bit more loaded.

Nope, it's a bookable service that as MisterT says only goes to Brussels.

It was a morning train that I saw!

Not only that, but it's a Eurostar that you cannot use a Eurostar "any Dutch station" ticket on.
I hadn’t realised these services ran — are they a more recent introduction as I don’t recall seeing them when I travelled to Amsterdam last year? I made my journey from to Brussels on the Thalys, before transferring onto Eurostar (I was travelling on a Sunday whether that would’ve made any difference).
 

AlexNL

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The Amsterdam -> Brussels Eurostar services have been introduced at the same time as the London -> Amsterdam Eurostar, but because it's quicker to take Thalys+Eurostar (due to timetabling and the necessary time to go through security) they're not currently offered for those wishing to travel to Amsterdam.
 

404250

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If you don't mind booking 2 trains and a slightly longer wait in Brussels it's a good option. Decent price for 1st class & much quieter than the Thalys service. Fewer station stops so slightly quicker as well.
 

Mag_seven

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What still annoys me is how the Amsterdam Eurostars run non stop from London to Brussels. It was very frustrating news. I had planned to take the inaugural service last year but could not make it into London eary enough so never did.

Not everyone lives in London and getting there with suitcases is extra time and hassle.
A stop at Ashford or Ebbsfleet would save me and those of us in Kent/Sussex at least 2 hours. The headline journey times mean nothing to us at all when getting to St Pancras plus check in takes the same amount of time to get to an airport and fly.

The option of changing trains at Lile and Brussles is even less appealing than doing so in England. I wish they made the Amsterdam services more accessible!

Most people out in the provinces will fly to Amsterdam from the likes of Bristol, Manchester, Newcastle etc.
 

BluePenguin

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Most people out in the provinces will fly to Amsterdam from the likes of Bristol, Manchester, Newcastle etc.
True, I am sure they will fly. But I do not live in a far distant place with an airport in the same or next city.

However Ashford Int is only 40 minutes away and Ebbsfleet Intl 1 hour. Both are easily reachable by train and comfortably too without changing because of the fast amd frequent direct trains. It is crazy that passengers like us must travel over an hour to St Pancras only to come back again to get through the tunnel.

Plus, the hassle and stress of getting to the airport early to check in, being restricted to 20kg of luggage and throwing away every single liquid substance "just in case" could be completely done away with by Eurostar mot forcing people to go all the way into London. Families, the disabled and other vulnerable people would really benefit from the convenience too.
 

cle

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I'd expect stops at Ashford and Ebbsfleet to be added as frequencies are (and once the checks open) - I could see this going up to 6-8 trains per day easily. Amsterdam is booming in every sector, and hugely popular for leisure too.
 

Struner

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What still annoys me is how the Amsterdam Eurostars run non stop from London to Brussels. It was very frustrating news. [...]
Not everyone lives in London and getting there with suitcases is extra time and hassle.
A stop at Ashford or Ebbsfleet would save me and those of us in Kent/Sussex at least 2 hours. [...]
Most people out in the provinces will fly to Amsterdam from the likes of Bristol, Manchester, Newcastle etc.
I want an Eurostar Amsterdam-Glasgow! Just stop in London, but not in those villages!
 

YorkshireBear

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They must be popular as the mid morning departure from London we were unable to get reservations on. Either that or they don't let interrail passes on.
 

33Hz

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They must be popular as the mid morning departure from London we were unable to get reservations on. Either that or they don't let interrail passes on.

It could have been the former but full of people going to Brussels. Like I said above, it is very popular for that, then in my experience on several occasions it empties right out.
 

itfcfan

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They must be popular as the mid morning departure from London we were unable to get reservations on. Either that or they don't let interrail passes on.

The ability to get a "pass" fare on a particular service doesn't directly relate to how busy a service is overall. From experience, it's simply that Eurostar keep a very low quota of pass fares for each service. I have no idea of the actual number in the quota, but they may (for example) have 20 pass fares on each service (out of ~900 seats on an e320). I've travelled using a pass fare on several occasions out of season (late autumn, away from the weekend not in morning/evening peaks) when you'd expect overall demand to be lowest and pass fares have still been hard to come by.
 

ainsworth74

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They must be popular as the mid morning departure from London we were unable to get reservations on. Either that or they don't let interrail passes on.
Depending on how far in advance it may not have been opened to Brussels passengers yet. I was looking for a date in September and the service doesn't show as available if you look for London - Brussels but does for London - Amsterdam. Now I suppose it could be sold out to Brussels but I somehow doubt it!
 

YorkshireBear

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It was June saturday mid morning so I imagine it just ran out of pass ticket allocations, unfortunate as its now a very early start from the North.
 

Jan

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The 11:04 departure to Amsterdam on the 23rd of June became bookable to Brussels yesterday, if it's of any help.
 

sisyphus

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Tickets booked for London St Pancras to Amsterdam Centraal direct
Can I get off earlier at Rotterdam Centraal (gated) instead?
Tickets are same price for Rotterdam or Amsterdam
 

33Hz

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I believe the answer is yes. I have done the same with tickets that had a barcode for other Dutch destinations.
 
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