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Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

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Techniquest

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That's a very funky sound on 230004! Looks like they have good performance too, and I'm definitely feeling the need to travel on one ASAP!
 

Bletchleyite

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Great video. Worth noting that they are nowhere near as noisy as the video implies - mobile phones tend to pick up background noise quite loud if there is no "foreground" noise to record. Note how noisy the 153 also seems.
 

Bletchleyite

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That's a very funky sound on 230004! Looks like they have good performance too, and I'm definitely feeling the need to travel on one ASAP!

Great performance even with one engine out. Fully functional they will no doubt match a 350 (up to a much lower top speed of course). Two engines out of four would be enough to match 153 performance, probably because unlike the Voith hydraulic transmission you don't turn a load of horses into heating oil up and making a racket, instead it is channeled more efficiently to the wheels by the electric transmission.
 

BucksBones

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Another vote of thanks to Bletchleyite for his thorough review.

This looks to be an excellent product from which many similar branch lines could benefit. (As well as those already mentioned I think Chiltern have missed a trick not snapping up a couple for the Aylesbury / Risborough branch).

Regarding the air cooling system, isn’t that what Chiltern’s 165s have? It works extremely well on those.
 

eMeS

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Great video. Worth noting that they are nowhere near as noisy as the video implies - mobile phones tend to pick up background noise quite loud if there is no "foreground" noise to record. Note how noisy the 153 also seems.

Sorry about that!
Even though I was using a directional microphone (in a "dead-cat" to keep wind-noise under control), I was using the camera's AGC and it does tend to lift background sounds somewhat. Not sure if I can control the audio level manually - worth checking out perhaps; but the camera's short of control buttons etc.

I didn't know anything about yesterday's events until BBC1 Look East came on at about 18:30.
 

Bletchleyite

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Another vote of thanks to Bletchleyite for his thorough review.

This looks to be an excellent product from which many similar branch lines could benefit. (As well as those already mentioned I think Chiltern have missed a trick not snapping up a couple for the Aylesbury / Risborough branch).

I think if they perform well there may well be a few more orders.

I know there are grand plans for it, but I can barely think of anywhere more suitable for say a 4-car battery set than Windsor, which is to all intents and purposes a diesel non-underground version of the Waterloo and City. No need to change the interior for those, either, other than a wheelchair bay or two.

Regarding the air cooling system, isn’t that what Chiltern’s 165s have? It works extremely well on those.

It has the advantage of not being caused to fail by open windows.
 

jfowkes

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Is the failed engine concerning? I guess they must have been reliable enough during trials and it was just unlucky that one failed so soon into service.
 

Bletchleyite

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Is the failed engine concerning? I guess they must have been reliable enough during trials and it was just unlucky that one failed so soon into service.

I don't know. Allegedly one of the causes of delay was a brief break to download the TMS to see if they could solve the issue. I don't think they would have put it out today had there been serious concerns, as yesterday will have cost them a packet in Delay Repay, the two units were basically operating a two-hourly service between them, ending up only about 10 minutes apart.
 

Billy A

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Great performance even with one engine out. Fully functional they will no doubt match a 350 (up to a much lower top speed of course). Two engines out of four would be enough to match 153 performance, probably because unlike the Voith hydraulic transmission you don't turn a load of horses into heating oil up and making a racket, instead it is channelled more efficiently to the wheels by the electric transmission.
Electric drive is far from a paragon of efficiency though (you'd have it in your car otherwise!). Bear in mind that DEMUs have become less common over the years. The fashionably more efficient alternative to a Voith hydrodynamic transmission is bus-type conventional automatic boxes as fitted to Class 195s. I'm told that while a Voith transmission is as you say stirring up and heating oil, this is mainly in first speed when the torque converter is in use and that in second and third speed efficiency is much better.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm told that while a Voith transmission is as you say stirring up and heating oil, this is mainly in first speed when the torque converter is in use and that in second and third speed efficiency is much better.

That is true, but the thing is that a Class 150 or 153 on a 40mph local stopping service like this doesn't get out of torque converter mode, so is never operating efficiently to provide good acceleration and always wasting fuel. On 15x the changeover point is about 40mph.

Yes, the Class 172 style "bus gearbox" also provides good acceleration - the Class 172s are pretty decent.

I think cars mainly don't have electric transmission because of (a) the cost and (b) the fact that people like using manual transmissions. But "series hybrids" do work this way, and will become ever more common.

But the key benefit of it on the 230 is modularity - you can replace the engine raft with absolutely anything else that gives the required electrical output and takes the required control signals - even if that thing has not been invented yet. You can of course do that with a conventional DMU and "anything that provides a rotating shaft of the required torque and speed", but it isn't quite as simple.
 

43074

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I'm on it at the moment, it's working the 14:55 Bedford to Bletchley. My thoughts:
- the only noise is when pulling away, to be honest even that is still reasonably quiet and significantly better than the 15x they are replacing
- I *really* like the bespoke Marston Vale branding and other information within the train, but that could be done with any unit tbh
- USB sockets have been installed on the longitudinal seating, a nice and well thought out touch
- Build quality is quite good, few rattles and the like
- I noticed more 'portly' and taller customers struggling with the airline seating which lacks room
- Door release was slow and one of the local door panels had failed
- The ride quality was lively in places, reminiscent of a 14x to an extent
- Overall I have mixed opinions: it reminded me to a large extent of the e144 done a few years ago, as Bletchleyite notes you clearly can tell what it was before, overall I'd probably give it 6/10: an innovative product but probably coming on stream five years too late with the amount of new stock on order, the DMU shortage when the project was conceived no longer exists to the same extent.
 

Bletchleyite

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- I noticed more 'portly' and taller customers struggling with the airline seating which lacks room

Interesting, as I am tall (6' 4"), long in the upper leg and heavily built and I had plenty of legroom in the airline seats particularly given the little recesses in the seat in front where my knees go (rather than where my knees don't go on e.g. Class 158s and Pendolinos). The seats are quite narrow, but not *as* narrow as 3+2 seats on 350/2s and the old 150s, and the wide windowsill on the large window means I can rest my arm on it making width less of an issue.

They are, to my fairly large self (as to how large have a nose at my photos upthread, there's a pic of me on it), definitely more comfortable than either of the previous units or a 350/2. Not better than a 350/1 though more legroom in the "normal" airline seats than those.

Only big downside is that the legroom in the *facing* seating is a little tight, but no worse than the 153s were. To solve this I'd probably suggest turning round a row of seats in the table-less bay and turning it into a pair of airlines, and spacing the adjacent table out a bit.

And there's always the option of the ex-LU side-facing seats with effectively unlimited legroom and quite decent width - and deep-sprung squabs if you don't like modern firm foams.
 

Jozhua

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The 230 seems a lot quieter from the videos!

As much as a bit of noise can be fun, I prefer my trains to be quiet. I feel electric trains often provide a much more civilised and relaxing experience. The 230 definitely seems to be an improvement on the 153 as seen in the video. As someone who travels on 15X's a lot, the noise is quite a big annoyance of mine.

In comparison to modern cars, a lot of Diesel trains can be quite noisy, which could be off-putting for people who have the choice between the two.

Another thing I will mention in regards to electric transmission is the fact that the diesel engines may be more able run at their most efficient speeds, instead of having to slow down and speed up with the train. Conversation and transmission losses are probably still the biggest factors in relation to efficiency, however.
 

DarloRich

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In comparison to modern cars, a lot of Diesel trains can be quite noisy, which could be off-putting for people who have the choice between the two.

have you traveled in many 30 year old diesel cars or buses for comparison? They are a lot quieter than they were previously!
 

Jozhua

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have you traveled in many 30 year old diesel cars or buses for comparison? They are a lot quieter than they were previously!

Not perticularly, although there are some fairly old buses still rattling about. All the more reason to replace them with more modern vehicles!
 

THC

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I'm planning a trip tomorrow to try out the new arrival but don't know which diagram it will be on. Would one of you kind people be able to advise? Thanks in advance.

THC
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm planning a trip tomorrow to try out the new arrival but don't know which diagram it will be on. Would one of you kind people be able to advise? Thanks in advance.

So far it's been on the Class 150 diagram, which is shown as 2 coaches in the PDF timetable on the LNR website.
 

JonathanH

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Thanks, most appreciated! I'd best create a '2xx DMUs Needs' list today. I assume 230001 and 230002 are floating around somewhere and will, eventually, enter service somewhere?

Your opportunity to get 230002 for haulage was last October on battery power on the Bo'ness & Kinneil Railway. I don't think there has been a public opportunity to ride 230001 but it was used for shuttles between Honeybourne and Long Marston for the Rail Alliance Rail Live 2017 event.
 

rogercov

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I notice from RTT that they have started test/training runs again. Another unit came out of the depot at around 6pm tonight (operated by Vintage Trains). I don't think they have done this for a week or two, but it's currently planned for tonight and tomorrow only.
Could this be in preparation for bringing a second one into passenger service next week, or am I reading too much into it?
 

Hadders

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I travelled on the 18:26 from Bedford and 20:01 from Bletchley today.

The write up from @Bletchleyite is spot on. I sat in an airline seat on the way out and a table seat on the return. The airline seat had sufficient leg room (more than an airline seat on a 700). In fact had this style of ironing board seat been fitted to the 700s we wouldn't have had the moans about them. The table seat felt tight and I suspect it would've been uncomfortable had someone been sitting opposite me.

The units seem perfect for the branch. Approach to many of the stations seemed slow but I suspect this is more to do with drivers being a little cautious given that they're new to them.

Another class 230 on a test run passed us not long after departure from Bedford.

There were problems with one of the doors yesterday and it was locked out of use. I saw one door out of use when I boarded at Bletchley so not sure if it's the same issue. The biggest issue yesterday was the level crossing failure.

There are power sockets under every pair of airline seats as well as USB sockets on the side facing seats.

I was told that the 150 on the branch had gone although I noticed it was in the carriage sidings at Bletchley. Unless there's a major issue with the 230s it won't run on the branch again. No idea when the 153 will go.
 

Doomotron

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This may well be the only new train to recently enter service that seems to be universally liked. Well done Vivarail.
 

superalbs

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Good morning all, is it in service on the regular diagram today? Thanks!

EDIT: Yes it is in service today, on the regular diagram, from Twitter.
 
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