Sold Flimsy Bog Roll Ticket at Manchester Piccadilly Ticket Office

paddington · 24 Apr 2019

As I've said elsewhere, if there are going to be barcode/QR code tickets in use anyway, why can't ticket machines just issue these instead of wasting metal on a one-use RFID ticket?

The CCST/bog roll debate is, to me, a different issue. Barcodes could be printed on a credit-card sized piece of card without a magstripe.

A season ticket could also be on a barcode which could be reprinted as necessary, though I agree a personal smartcard with a photo is better.

RailUK Forums

dave87016 · 25 Apr 2019

Virgin ticket office also issues tickets on bog roll stock bought first class advances from darwen to london and it was issued on the bog roll stock 3/5 people in front of me complained about the inconvenience of the tickets

xotGD · 25 Apr 2019

Clip said:
They fit in mine as I fold along the top and bottom to make sure they fit and have no issue with them at all.

If you have to fold it to make it fit doesn't that imply that it doesn't fit?

Incidentally, a while back I witnessed a bogroll ticket machine playing up and spew out around 4 yards of ticket in one go. Good luck anyone trying to fit that in their wallet!

_toommm_ · 25 Apr 2019

xotGD said:
If you have to fold it to make it fit doesn't that imply that it doesn't fit?

Incidentally, a while back I witnessed a bogroll ticket machine playing up and spew out around 4 yards of ticket in one go. Good luck anyone trying to fit that in their wallet!

I'm just glad Piccadilly still issue CountyCards on the card stock - I'd not be happy paying £122 a month for a receipt

philthetube · 26 Apr 2019

madmaxno1 said:
Let's not forget that ok, the mag stripe tickets are old tech and not really smart-ticket compatible, but there is technology that exists and is in use.

Perhaps instead of taking a backwards step and moving back to a flimsy paper ticket, the train companies should have gone for the disposable NS OV-chipkaart route, with the long term goal of a reusable RFID card that works across the entire network.

I am aware that NS does charge a little extra for the disposable ones, but surely on a long distance or season, the cost could be absorbed, or charge a tiny premium for these tickets in comparison to a mobile/print at home ticket with a QR code for shorter distances, which would encourage adoption.

Please consider the environment, reusable fine but not disposable

Mag stripes bad,

Coated paper not much better.

Really time serious consideration was given to these issues.

infobleep · 26 Apr 2019

philthetube said:
Please consider the environment, reusable fine but not disposable

Mag stripes bad,

Coated paper not much better.

Really time serious consideration was given to these issues.

They obviously needed new technology for this. Could this new technology have ueed ink that didn't smudge so easily?

Clip · 26 Apr 2019

xotGD said:
If you have to fold it to make it fit doesn't that imply that it doesn't fit?

Incidentally, a while back I witnessed a bogroll ticket machine playing up and spew out around 4 yards of ticket in one go. Good luck anyone trying to fit that in their wallet!

Not at all read it again I fold it to make it fit which is contrary to the poster I quoted who claims no matter how many times they fold them they still dont fit which is very untrue and the statement only made because they dont like this format which is apparent by the many threads and posts they have made on them.

They're here to stay for the present time so people best get used to them

yorksrob · 26 Apr 2019

philthetube said:
Please consider the environment, reusable fine but not disposable

Mag stripes bad,

Coated paper not much better.

Really time serious consideration was given to these issues.

The original credit card sized ticket stock wasn't coated at all, so perhaps a return to this but with a bar code instead of mag stripe.

Haywain · 26 Apr 2019

infobleep said:
Could this new technology have used ink that didn't smudge so easily?

It could have done but thermal print is better, which is certainly what is used on all of the PRT machines that I am aware of.

Bletchleyite · 26 Apr 2019

yorksrob said:
The original credit card sized ticket stock wasn't coated at all, so perhaps a return to this but with a bar code instead of mag stripe.

Indeed, moving away from magstripe does not necessitate moving away from credit card format, you can just print a barcode on it.

Puffing Devil · 26 Apr 2019

Clip said:
Not at all read it again I fold it to make it fit which is contrary to the poster I quoted who claims no matter how many times they fold them they still dont fit which is very untrue and the statement only made because they dont like this format which is apparent by the many threads and posts they have made on them.

They're here to stay for the present time so people best get used to them

Please post a picture of a folded weekly season ticket with both the date and the bar code visible.

Clip · 26 Apr 2019

Puffing Devil said:
Please post a picture of a folded weekly season ticket with both the date and the bar code visible.

I dont use them for any form of season and never claimed to do so but what would be wrong to taking it out of your wallet to then show?

boxy321 · 26 Apr 2019

Mathew S said:
I'd go with that; but let's require all TOCs etc. to recognize any ITSO standard smartcard first. At the moment I've got three, because none of the individual providers will load a ticket onto a card that doesn't have their brand on it

I regularly have to replace my monthly magstripe, credit card sized, ticket at least twice a month. In fact, it rarely lasts longer than 7-10 days before the stripe stops working the ticket gates.

My monthly cards often don't work at all, only work at one station, or work at all stations but one, or last a week and then pack up. The replacement lasted one week in April and I don't store them near a phone or credit cards or anything else. The photocard number smudges after the 1st day and normal ink takes about 6 hours to dry.

yorksrob · 26 Apr 2019

Clip said:
Not at all read it again I fold it to make it fit which is contrary to the poster I quoted who claims no matter how many times they fold them they still dont fit which is very untrue and the statement only made because they dont like this format which is apparent by the many threads and posts they have made on them.

They're here to stay for the present time so people best get used to them

Actually, this is the only thread I've made on the subject.

No doubt they are here to stay, however its a shame to have to get used to a decline in quality.

Puffing Devil · 26 Apr 2019

Clip said:
I dont use them for any form of season and never claimed to do so but what would be wrong to taking it out of your wallet to then show?

Because, as many people have said, the ticket is flimsy and the text decays with "use".

Notwithstanding the Origami exercise to get it in and out of the wallet.

infobleep · 26 Apr 2019

Haywain said:
It could have done but thermal print is better, which is certainly what is used on all of the PRT machines that I am aware of.

So why can't the new role use thermal print?

najaB · 26 Apr 2019

infobleep said:
So why can't the new role use thermal print?

Doesn't it?

Haywain · 26 Apr 2019

infobleep said:
So why can't the new role use thermal print?

It does.

Starmill · 26 Apr 2019

221129 said:
It's a good job you can get ticket wallets designed for them then isn't it?.

I've asked for such a wallet from several ticket offices which will only issue tickets on roll ticket stock (if this format is approved for the ticket in question, that is) quite a few times over the past year. Each time the response has been to claim no such thing exists. You can't both be right.

Having said that, I did discover that a single ticket fits sideways into two windows of a CCST wallet fairly nicely. Obviously this cannot be folded and therefore cannot really go into my pocket but it's more elegant than anything else I've seen to date.

Starmill · 26 Apr 2019

In response to the concerns about ticket legibility, I wouldn't worry. An Off Peak Return I bought over a year ago onboard the train was printed on paper roll. Two weeks later when I made my return journey, the printed information had faded almost entirely and was nearly beyond recognition. This was met only with a wordless sigh by the guard. I thought that summed it up perfectly to be honest

221129 · 27 Apr 2019

Starmill said:
I've asked for such a wallet from several ticket offices which will only issue tickets on roll ticket stock (if this format is approved for the ticket in question, that is) quite a few times over the past year. Each time the response has been to claim no such thing exists. You can't both be right.

Having said that, I did discover that a single ticket fits sideways into two windows of a CCST wallet fairly nicely. Obviously this cannot be folded and therefore cannot really go into my pocket but it's more elegant than anything else I've seen to date.

Unless I'm imagining the pile of such wallets in the bottom of my kit bag then I'm pretty sure the ticket office is mistaken...

whhistle · 27 Apr 2019

cactustwirly said:
I didn't know that CCST tickets had QR codes on them, what sort of ticket types have them then?

yorksrob said:
That still doesn't explain why they can't put a barcode on a convenient ticket shaped piece of card.

_toommm_ said:
They did for a while (not sure if some stations/TVMs still do), but I'm guessing because of how small it was beside the text (and I cna imagine the printers being lower quality in what they can print), it meant there were less 'bits' on the QR code.

Bletchleyite said:
Of course there is no practical reason (other than cost) why we could not stick with credit card sized pieces of card for "traditional" tickets, just put a barcode on the back (or front) instead of a magstripe.

This is/was a plan:

Not sure if that's in the next redesign or they glossed over it for the new standard.
I'd hope it'll be in the next redesign, where they can clear nearly all the info off the ticket and people can just scan it themselves to see more detailled info.

Bletchleyite said:
Not great for seasons, which probably are better on something contactless (be that an actual smartcard or just a simple RFID containing what the barcode contains) but fine for singles and returns.

Smartcards are being pushed this year so will be replacing many seasons over the next couple o' three years I'd expect.

whhistle · 27 Apr 2019

221129 said:
Unless I'm imagining the pile of such wallets in the bottom of my kit bag then I'm pretty sure the ticket office is mistaken...

Do you have a photo of the wallets that take the roll type tickets?

I always thought this was an easy way for RDG to stop producing the wallets... saving on plastic and all that.
Many people have much more durable ones now anyway.

whhistle · 27 Apr 2019

yorksrob said:
Due to the wonder of Microsoft, trying to get my computer to even recognise that my phone exists, is an irritating rigmarole.

What Windows version do you have?
What phone do you have?

yorksrob · 27 Apr 2019

whhistle said:
What Windows version do you have?
What phone do you have?

I have windows 8.1 and my phone is an LG. But with every configuration of phone and computer I've had, there always seems to be some sort of intermittent driver problem.

Today, I went to Leeds ticket office, bought my tickets and they are sat in my ticket office ready to go. No scrunching or folding. I suppose we should learn not to take such blissful simplicity for granted.

johntea · 27 Apr 2019

The amount of different ticketing designs and methods floating around these days is quite frankly a complete mess

I live in West Yorkshire and work in Harrogate. Right, so I'll just get myself an annual MCard smartcard and buy a Zone 1-6 annual ticket to put on it. Nope, can't do that as Zone 1-6 is apparently a rail product rather than a MCard product (what?!), so stuck with an unreliable piece of cardboard for the ticket barriers still, whereas when I worked in Bradford instead - Zone 1-5 I could quite happily have my MCard to get through barriers and the ticket machine provided me with a counterpart rail ticket to show to rail staff

Meanwhile I buy a weekly bus ticket on Transdev which can either be mobile or paper based depending on preference, either way they both contain a QR code which reliably works with their ticket machines. That costs a tenner a week, my rail ticket costs close to 40 quid a week and is much more hassle in terms of reliability!

Deerfold · 27 Apr 2019

johntea said:
The amount of different ticketing designs and methods floating around these days is quite frankly a complete mess

I live in West Yorkshire and work in Harrogate. Right, so I'll just get myself an annual MCard smartcard and buy a Zone 1-6 annual ticket to put on it. Nope, can't do that as Zone 1-6 is apparently a rail product rather than a MCard product (what?!), so stuck with an unreliable piece of cardboard for the ticket barriers still, whereas when I worked in Bradford instead - Zone 1-5 I could quite happily have my MCard to get through barriers and the ticket machine provided me with a counterpart rail ticket to show to rail staff

Meanwhile I buy a weekly bus ticket on Transdev which can either be mobile or paper based depending on preference, either way they both contain a QR code which reliably works with their ticket machines. That costs a tenner a week, my rail ticket costs close to 40 quid a week and is much more hassle in terms of reliability!

And to further show how simple it is, Zones 1-5 include bus travel throughout West Yorkshire, Zones 1-6 includes no bus travel.
(They've stopped printing counterpart cards this month for zones within West Yorkshire.)

infobleep · 29 Apr 2019

Haywain said:
It does.

OK so it doesn't fad then?

najaB · 29 Apr 2019

infobleep said:
OK so it doesn't fad then?

Thermal print tends to fade.

Haywain · 29 Apr 2019

najaB said:
Thermal print tends to fade.

Indeed, there is plenty of evidence of thermal print on CCST stock fading - railcards and season tickets, for example. There is no reason why another type of paper (as in PRT) should be any different.

Sold Flimsy Bog Roll Ticket at Manchester Piccadilly Ticket Office

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