Halton Curve upgrade is on

frodshamfella · 25 Apr 2019

I don't think there is any new additional parking in Frodsham you will just have to pay in future on top of your rail fare.

RailUK Forums

Arriva 175 · 25 Apr 2019

frodshamfella said:
I don't think there is any new additional parking in Frodsham you will just have to pay in future on top of your rail fare.

I think the new tarmacked area by the old goods shed is probably considered as new additional parking, along with the similar smaller version at Helsby. Both filled almost immediately with Manchester/Chester commuters. Cheshire West and Chester is indeed advocating charging for car parking but i know that both town/parish councils strongly oppose the idea as this will only lead to rail users parking outside peoples houses. At this current moment in time with only 4 weeks until the start of services there is no additional parking to allow for the increased business that the Liverpool service will generate and id say that's extremely poor. Abled bodied passengers from Helsby and Frodsham may be able to walk to the stations but those from outlying areas such as Alvanley, Kelsall, Kingsley etc have no alternative.

catfordbags · 25 Apr 2019

A nice field adjacent to the North of Helsby station if we wanted to pave paradise....

frodshamfella · 25 Apr 2019

Arriva 175 said:
I think the new tarmacked area by the old goods shed is probably considered as new additional parking, along with the similar smaller version at Helsby. Both filled almost immediately with Manchester/Chester commuters. Cheshire West and Chester is indeed advocating charging for car parking but i know that both town/parish councils strongly oppose the idea as this will only lead to rail users parking outside peoples houses. At this current moment in time with only 4 weeks until the start of services there is no additional parking to allow for the increased business that the Liverpool service will generate and id say that's extremely poor. Abled bodied passengers from Helsby and Frodsham may be able to walk to the stations but those from outlying areas such as Alvanley, Kelsall, Kingsley etc have no alternative.

That's me, I live outside the town so have to drive and there is no bus. It is rather poor that the powers that be haven't added new parking, this new service has been known about for long enough. I hope the charges are not too excessive ( but once applied they just continue to rise ) all that then happens is the retailers suffer as shoppers going to larger supermarkets and retail parks where park is free.

FrodshamJnct · 25 Apr 2019

What stock is going to be on the Chester - Liverpool Lime Street? 175s?

6Gman · 25 Apr 2019

Tom Maddox said:
What stock is going to be on the Chester - Liverpool Lime Street? 175s?

150s surely. 175s would be wasted on such a route.

FrodshamJnct · 25 Apr 2019

6Gman said:
150s surely. 175s would be wasted on such a route.

Just been having a look and 175s have been spotted at Lime Street on the training runs

6Gman · 25 Apr 2019

Tom Maddox said:
Just been having a look and 175s have been spotted at Lime Street on the training runs

As have 150s and 158s. Presumably the training runs use whatever is available at Chester.

PHILIPE · 25 Apr 2019

Tom Maddox said:
Just been having a look and 175s have been spotted at Lime Street on the training runs

A 175 with down time at Chester has taken over following the suspension of temporary diagrams.

notlob.divad · 25 Apr 2019

frodshamfella said:
That's me, I live outside the town so have to drive and there is no bus. It is rather poor that the powers that be haven't added new parking, this new service has been known about for long enough.

There are two solutions to that problem, both of which you have identified. Only 1 of them involves tarmacing over even more of the countryside, yet this is the one people focus on.

absolutelymilk · 25 Apr 2019

Arriva 175 said:
Cheshire West and Chester is indeed advocating charging for car parking but i know that both town/parish councils strongly oppose the idea as this will only lead to rail users parking outside peoples houses.

The obvious solution is a residents parking zone then, not spending money building more parking (and missing out on income from parking charges) which could be spent on better things

FrodshamJnct · 25 Apr 2019

absolutelymilk said:
The obvious solution is a residents parking zone then, not spending money building more parking (and missing out on income from parking charges) which could be spent on better things

Which is why they’re proposing a limit of 2 hour maximum stay on Main Street (I think).

driver_m · 25 Apr 2019

If they’re going to drive to Frodsham, is is not feasible to go a bit further to Runcorn. Plenty of room there

childwallblues · 25 Apr 2019

driver_m said:
If they’re going to drive to Frodsham, is is not feasible to go a bit further to Runcorn. Plenty of room there

At Virgin Trains prices!

FrodshamJnct · 25 Apr 2019

childwallblues said:
At Virgin Trains prices!

Yeah £12 per day.

driver_m · 25 Apr 2019

childwallblues said:
At Virgin Trains prices!

You can park on the street too. Depending on time of day.

FrodshamJnct · 25 Apr 2019

driver_m said:
You can park on the street too. Depending on time of day.

Getting harder with those new houses and the building work going on.

Arriva 175 · 25 Apr 2019

Tom Maddox said:
Yeah £12 per day.

When they used to have an off peak price after 10am i used to use Runcorn a lot going into Liverpool. But at £12 a day no matter what its cheaper to drive over the new bridge and park at a relatives in East Liverpool. That's Virgin Trains for you. Don't give a toss about Liverpool traffic cos the focus is all on travelling to Euston and no matter how rose tinted people and the media are about them November cant come soon enough.

edwin_m · 25 Apr 2019

Arriva 175 said:
When they used to have an off peak price after 10am i used to use Runcorn a lot going into Liverpool. But at £12 a day no matter what its cheaper to drive over the new bridge and park at a relatives in East Liverpool. That's Virgin Trains for you. Don't give a toss about Liverpool traffic cos the focus is all on travelling to Euston and no matter how rose tinted people and the media are about them November cant come soon enough.

But if they made the car park cheap at Runcorn it would fill up with people travelling to Euston and there wouldn't be any space for people making local journeys anyway!

Basically station car parks are cheap or free when the service from that station is a local service into a big city, so a car parked there is likely to be one fewer car causing congestion and pollution in the city. But stations served by long-distance trains tend to be in urban areas and cars parking there will be contributing to local pollution and congestion, so there is little justification to subsidise the car parking. Also franchisees can charge what they like for parking at their managed stations, and the charges would have to go a lot higher before significant numbers of people decided to drive all the way instead of taking the train. It's probably still cheaper than getting taxis to and from the station - and station parking is cheap compared to airports!

And what it comes down to is that if people use trains frequently and choose to drive to the station, or choose to live where there is no other way of getting there, then there is a cost attached to that choice.

LNW-GW Joint · 26 Apr 2019

Arriva 175 said:
When they used to have an off peak price after 10am i used to use Runcorn a lot going into Liverpool. But at £12 a day no matter what its cheaper to drive over the new bridge and park at a relatives in East Liverpool. That's Virgin Trains for you. Don't give a toss about Liverpool traffic cos the focus is all on travelling to Euston and no matter how rose tinted people and the media are about them November cant come soon enough.

And what do you think their successor will do to car park prices?
How do you think the multi-storey car park was funded?
Even Chester charges £6.50 a day (Arriva/TfW).

Phil from Mon · 26 Apr 2019

TFW press release yesterday at https://news.tfwrail.wales/news/halton-curve-the-countdown-for-liverpool-services-begins

Halton Curve: the countdown for Liverpool services begins

Transport for Wales is gearing up for the start of new hourly services linking north Wales and Cheshire to Liverpool which will begin next month.

From 19th May, Transport for Wales will begin its new services along the route in what has been described as a "major economic boost" for the region.

A total of 215 new services per week have been created.

Services will be hourly from Chester, calling at Helsby, Frodsham, Runcorn, Liverpool South Parkway (for John Lennon Airport) and Liverpool Lime Street.

There will also be two direct services per day from Wrexham General and one direct from Liverpool to Wrexham.

Prices are now in retail systems with selected fares as follows:

Wrexham General to Liverpool Lime Street Anytime Day Return £11.50

Chester and Helsby to Liverpool Lime Street Anytime Day Return £7.50

Frodsham to Liverpool Lime Street Anytime Day Return £7

James Price, Chief Executive of Transport for Wales, said:

"Transport for Wales is investing £5 billion to transform the transport sector throughout the Wales and Borders network and we're incredibly excited to see the introduction of the new services linking north Wales and Cheshire with Liverpool.

"It will be a major economic boost for the area and the fact Transport for Wales are delivering 215 brand new services a week, really underpins our commitment to building a better transport network for all.

"This project saw an immense amount of hard work, dedication and investment by so many individuals and agencies and shows just what can be achieved by collaborative working.

“We are approaching our first six months at Transport for Wales and this is another important milestone as we continue to deliver our vision."

The new services are being introduced along the 1.5 mile long Halton Curve as part of Network Rail's Great North Rail Project involving extensive upgrades to track and signalling meaning that the line was able to operate a new hourly service, in both directions, between Liverpool and Chester/Wrexham.

The project follows decades of hard work by local campaigners and significant work and investment by DfT, Welsh Government, Liverpool City Region, Merseytravel and Network Rail.

Services on the line all but stopped in May 1975, although the route was kept open with an occasional summer only parliamentary service from Chester to Runcorn.

Steve Rotheram, Liverpool City Region Combined Authority Metro Mayor, said: "One of the Combined Authority's key aims is priorities is to deliver major improvements in connectivity for our area.

“The Halton Curve is one of many ambitious rail schemes across the Liverpool City Region that have been delivered by the Combined Authority, working together in partnership with a number of organisations.

“Thanks to this, there are now more frequent trains between Liverpool and Chester and the first direct services between the city and Wrexham since 1975.

“With future plans to expand further into North Wales and an aspiration for direct Liverpool to Cardiff services, this is just the start of us realising the potential benefits that re-opening the Halton Curve will bring.”

Marcus Barnes, senior sponsor at Network Rail, said: “The Halton Curve is a relatively small stretch of track in Frodsham, but it unlocks a wealth of leisure and business opportunities for the Liverpool City Region, its airport, Cheshire and North Wales.

“Our track and signalling upgrades, to allow trains to run in both directions on the line, were completed in May last year. It’s incredibly exciting that the Halton Curve will soon reach its full potential with new services between Liverpool and Chester, with some services on to Wrexham.

“This is another great example of the Great North Rail Project in action.”

Marina Farey from the North Cheshire Community Rail Partnership said: “Services commencement via Halton Curve is a significant event for our area. It will open up opportunities for our local communities and contribute to social and economic development in Cheshire and Merseyside.”

frodshamfella · 26 Apr 2019

driver_m said:
If they’re going to drive to Frodsham, is is not feasible to go a bit further to Runcorn. Plenty of room there

Parking is costly there, certainly too much on a day return to Liverpool. I think a lot of commuters use side streets because of that, I'm sure the local residents love that !

I think it's important that whatever fees for parking at Helsby and Frodsham are not excessive otherwise it will just put rail users off.

frodshamfella · 26 Apr 2019

driver_m said:
If they’re going to drive to Frodsham, is is not feasible to go a bit further to Runcorn. Plenty of room there

Personally I wouldn't drive to Runcorn. As I want to support the new service out of Frodsham Station, there has been a 27year wait for a regular service after all.

frodshamfella · 26 Apr 2019

I wonder if there will be any publicity at stations on the route of the new service.

Arriva 175 · 26 Apr 2019

LNW-GW Joint said:
And what do you think their successor will do to car park prices?
How do you think the multi-storey car park was funded?
Even Chester charges £6.50 a day (Arriva/TfW).

The successor will hopefully do whatever Halton Borough Council tell them to do if parking in the local streets around the car park is a big issue? It was ok for Virgin to charge differently off peak until 3 years ago but not now. Why? Rail is a viable alternative to road if the cost is similar or cheaper. But including the car park and the rail ticket it currently is not from Runcorn to Liverpool. And if Frodsham or Helsby isn't sorted the same will apply. People wont stop driving and use the Halton Curve if its not viable.
Ps. Chester car park isn't Arriva or now TFW. Its NCP.

LNW-GW Joint · 26 Apr 2019

Arriva 175 said:
Ps. Chester car park isn't Arriva or now TFW. Its NCP.

Run on behalf of TfW I think (ie the car park [both of them] is still in railway ownership).
I also use Flint station, and the car park there is council-owned.
It used to be free, but was also used by local business owners (who stayed all day) and shoppers, so rarely space for rail users.
They've now put a £2 charge on it, so rail users have a better chance of finding a space.
It's difficult to get it right.

Arriva 175 · 26 Apr 2019

I think all TFW car parks are managed by NCP although ownership of the land may vary. You are correct though, it certainly is difficult to get right. Increasing the patronage on the railway also means increasing the ability for customers to use stations. And car parking is a major sticking point. The Halton curve is a great opportunity for North Cheshire residents to access Merseyside directly by rail without having to drive, pay the highly suspect tolling system and then find car parking in Liverpool etc. I am fortunate enough to be able to walk to my local station so i plan on using it a lot. Its hotly anticipated by a lot of people in this area but i think there is going to be severe problems and this is all regardless of TFWs current severe rolling stock shortage.

notabasher · 27 Apr 2019

Had a look at the fares and it has made finding the optimum price for a trip from South Liverpool to Shrewsbury and points south even more complicated. Prices in ascending order: Saveaway to Chester via Merseyrail then rebook. Direct train via Halton Curve to Chester then rebook. LMR to Crewe and rebook. Off-peak fare which is valid any which way but is over £40! More complication if not returning the same day. Can't we have an offpeak fare that isn't £40+? Why is this journey so expensive?

LNW-GW Joint · 27 Apr 2019

Birkenhead Central-Shrewsbury Off Peak Return Any Permitted (8A, same as the Liverpool ticket and also set by TfW) is £27.70.
It appears to be valid via Lime St*.
Theoretically, Break of Journey is not permitted.

*For this fare, TfW offers services via Hooton and Chester, or Lime St and Crewe.
However, after the timetable change it doesn't offer a service on the new route via Frodsham ("no tickets are available").
It's hard to tell if this is just because the routeing guide has not yet been updated, or not.

Phil from Mon · 27 Apr 2019

LNW-GW Joint said:
Birkenhead Central-Shrewsbury Off Peak Return Any Permitted (8A, same as the Liverpool ticket and also set by TfW) is £27.70.
It appears to be valid via Lime St*.
Theoretically, Break of Journey is not permitted.

*For this fare, TfW offers services via Hooton and Chester, or Lime St and Crewe.
However, after the timetable change it doesn't offer a service on the new route via Frodsham ("no tickets are available").
It's hard to tell if this is just because the routeing guide has not yet been updated, or not.

The TFW app is showing £26.45 for Liverpool to Shrewsbury off peak return, either central via Hooton or Lime Street via Helsby. Singles are £18.80.

Halton Curve upgrade is on

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member