• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
I didn't mean 20 year old parts in that sense, more that it was a 20 year old design, my apologies. In terms of the mini/midibus sector, ADL have not produced a proper short lightweight bus like Optare have with the Solo and Wrightbus to a lesser extent with the Streetlite, what they would probably call an Enviro 100. Optare I can remember reading were not going to do anything with the Metrodecker as previous double deck efforts had not gone as well. The thing is getting back to Lothian, they have tried Wrightbus, they were big customers for over a decade, surely you would think that in order to keep Lothian, they would actually listen to their customers instead of losing orders hand over fist to ADL.

I also have to ask, how have the other types seemed to fare in Lothian's fleet other than the usual Wrightbus fare, I know the original Hybrid deckers had their issues, but how have the volvo electric buses and the streetair's (I know they are wrightbus too) been?

The 8.9 Metre Enviro200MMC would fill the Solo/StreetliteWF market, I don't think ADL have any interest in entering the community bus market so i doubt we'll see a wheel forward product anytime soon. Back in the day Alexander's did offer a ALX100 body for the Mercedes 814 chassis.

The Government (and probably the council) would rather Lothian bought ADL products as it's supporting a local company, however Lothian will probably just go with what ever product meets their criteria best at the time. Allegedly Wrightbus were not going to build a 13.4M body for the B8L chassis that Lothian were wanting whereas ADL (Who are more known for doing one off builds etc) did agree to develop such model. This is what has primarily triggered the switch.

Without sounding like i'm being too "Pro-ADL", on the whole ADL are better at listening to what operators want and are quite obviously much more happy to do bespoke designs for particular operators. Panther LE, Leopard Interurban, Plaxton Panorama, Enviro400XLB & Enviro200XLB just being some recent examples i can think of off the top of my head
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Swanny200

Member
Joined
18 Sep 2010
Messages
665
The 8.9 Metre Enviro200MMC would fill the Solo/StreetliteWF market, I don't think ADL have any interest in entering the community bus market so i doubt we'll see a wheel forward product anytime soon. Back in the day Alexander's did offer a ALX100 body for the Mercedes 814 chassis.

The Government (and probably the council) would rather Lothian bought ADL products as it's supporting a local company, however Lothian will probably just go with what ever product meets their criteria best at the time. Allegedly Wrightbus were not going to build a 13.4M body for the B8L chassis that Lothian were wanting whereas ADL (Who are more known for doing one off builds etc) did agree to develop such model. This is what has primarily triggered the switch.

Without sounding like i'm being too "Pro-ADL", on the whole ADL are better at listening to what operators want and are quite obviously much more happy to do bespoke designs for particular operators. Panther LE, Leopard Interurban, Plaxton Panorama, Enviro400XLB & Enviro200XLB just being some recent examples i can think of off the top of my head


Yes, I remember the ALX100, very similar to the Beaver 2 on the Vario chassis, Arriva Medway had some, but I preferred the older M&D Reeve Burgess bodied ones. I agree that ADL are listening to operators, some of their offerings (like the panorama) don't seem to be built in big numbers yet but there is time.
 

alangla

Member
Joined
11 Apr 2018
Messages
1,178
Location
Glasgow
Yes, I remember the ALX100, very similar to the Beaver 2 on the Vario chassis, Arriva Medway had some, but I preferred the older M&D Reeve Burgess bodied ones. I agree that ADL are listening to operators, some of their offerings (like the panorama) don't seem to be built in big numbers yet but there is time.
There was also the Primo offering from ADL, albeit under the Plaxton brand
 

CM

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2010
Messages
667
There was also the Primo offering from ADL, albeit under the Plaxton brand

Pretty sure the Primo was introduced and sold by Plaxton before Alexander Dennis acquired them with ADL dropping the Primo in favour of the Enviro 200. The Centro was also introduced by Plaxton, again, dropped in favour of the Enviro range of buses. So neither the Primo or the Centro were ADL products.
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
Pretty sure the Primo was introduced and sold by Plaxton before Alexander Dennis acquired them with ADL dropping the Primo in favour of the Enviro 200. The Centro was also introduced by Plaxton, again, dropped in favour of the Enviro range of buses. So neither the Primo or the Centro were ADL products.

Further to this if memory serves me correct the Primo was not actually developed (Or built?) by Plaxton but just marketed as theirs.

The Primo didn't really fit with any markets, too small for most service work, not enough floor space for community work.
 

CM

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2010
Messages
667
It was developed by a company called Enterprise Bus Ltd, can't remember where they were originally based but I belive they sent the RHD Chassis/Frame to Plaxton's who then finished the buses of with Bodywork. The Bodywork however seems to be to Enterprise Bus Ltd's design as there is photos of them elsewhere in the world.
 

Swanny200

Member
Joined
18 Sep 2010
Messages
665
Wasn't the Centro a replacement for the Verde, another blink and you will miss it sort of bus that didn't get picked up on the radar. I remember the Primo too, was a very odd looking bus with the very short overhang.
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
Wasn't the Centro a replacement for the Verde, another blink and you will miss it sort of bus that didn't get picked up on the radar. I remember the Primo too, was a very odd looking bus with the very short overhang.

The Prestige replaced the Verde.

Under Transbus Plaxton built little/no buses, just coaches. After Plaxton left the partnership they wanted to reenter the bus market again, hence why the Centro and Primo came along. The Centro and Primo actually sold pretty well given how "unusual they were".
 

Swanny200

Member
Joined
18 Sep 2010
Messages
665
The Prestige replaced the Verde.

Under Transbus Plaxton built little/no buses, just coaches. After Plaxton left the partnership they wanted to reenter the bus market again, hence why the Centro and Primo came along. The Centro and Primo actually sold pretty well given how "unusual they were".

Yes I remember the Prestige now but for some reason always thought it was a Northern Counties body, I didn't realise the Centro and Primo actually sold well, I can only remember seeing the odd one or two on my travels amongst the usual fare.
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
Yes I remember the Prestige now but for some reason always thought it was a Northern Counties body, I didn't realise the Centro and Primo actually sold well, I can only remember seeing the odd one or two on my travels amongst the usual fare.

Plaxton bought out NC in 1995 with the Northern Counties name being dropped in favour of the Plaxton brand in 1999. The Prestige was originally badged as a NC product, it was even originally going to be called the Paladin LF, however the bulk of them are badged as Plaxtons and of course during the full duration of the product NC was under Plaxton ownership. The Plaxton President was also developed under Northern Counties.
 

alangla

Member
Joined
11 Apr 2018
Messages
1,178
Location
Glasgow
The Prestige replaced the Verde.

Under Transbus Plaxton built little/no buses, just coaches. After Plaxton left the partnership they wanted to reenter the bus market again, hence why the Centro and Primo came along. The Centro and Primo actually sold pretty well given how "unusual they were".

Having read a bit more on the company history, I see there was a spell where Plaxton were independent in between the Transbus and ADL periods. I’d previously thought one went directly into the other. Sorry for the thread diversion!
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
I'm surprised it has not been mentioned here already, but Trident X586USC is now under preservation with ScotBus Preservation Group.
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
Was literally just about to put this, dont see th point as 572 already is the same spec

They were offered it by Edinburgh Zoo along with Olympian N726LTN. The same argument could be implied to the millions (sarcasm) of near identical bright red Routemasters preserved. I think the more buses saved, the better.
 

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,170
592 has been repainted into Lothian Country livery. No advert frames surprisingly wich id have thought it would have gained
 

Driver362

Member
Joined
12 Aug 2018
Messages
296
Good to see them repainting as one of them had a really nasty big fuel stain, while others had rust marks appearing along the skirt.
Have you seen the state of some of firsts scania and volvo eclipse's , I've seen stock car bangers with better paint and panels , OBD on defect card
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
Have you seen the state of some of firsts scania and volvo eclipse's , I've seen stock car bangers with better paint and panels , OBD on defect card

Indeed, but that's unrelated to the "lothian buses and ecb discussion" thread.
 
Last edited:

Lothian285

Member
Joined
26 Aug 2018
Messages
100
Location
Edinburgh
Lothian have received funding to retrofit 36 buses from Euro 5 to Euro 6:

https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2019/04/lothian-awarded-bear-funding/

Lothian has today (25 April) announced that following a successful bid it has been awarded funding from the Scottish Government’s Scottish Bus Emissions Abatement Retrofit (BEAR) programme.

Lothian’s application for funding was received and assessed by the Energy Savings Trust, who have granted the company £327,604 of BEAR Phase 2 funding. Full funding was received for 11 buses and a further 25 buses have been awarded 40% funding, with Lothian committing to paying the remaining 60% of the costs.

The BEAR programme was set up by the Scottish Government with an aim to fit buses/coaches with approved retrofit technology measures to support the delivery of Scotland’s Low Emission Zones.

Claire McVicar, Lothian’s Environmental Officer leading on the Bus2020 project said: “We are fully committed to improving air quality across all our operations in Edinburgh and the Lothian’s through our ambitious Bus2020 strategy, in line with the Scottish Government’s Climate Change Targets. We are delighted to receive further funding from The Scottish Government to assist us in achieving our aims. This funding combined with our own substantial investment, will be used to retrofit 36 of our Euro 5 buses to Euro 6 standard, enabling us to continue to reduce our emissions in some of Edinburgh’s key air quality management areas.”

Lothian’s Bus2020 commitment will see the company run only Euro 5 or above buses by the end of next year. Furthermore, Lothian’s award winning sightseeing subsidiary Edinburgh Bus Tours operation is now run solely with the latest green Euro 6 buses.

As a result of its BUS2020 Strategy, the company will see reductions in particulates by 75% and harmful NOx emissions by 98%, meeting the Scottish Government’s target of a 42% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. Lothian will also remove over 12,000 tonnes of CO2 from their carbon footprint.
 

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,170
Fleet moves as of 27/04/2019 not much since last time however
322 LS -> CE
733-736 W -> CE
737 W -> LS

Heres the last fleet update
B7 Allocation (19/04/2019)
No changes since my last post here


However 322 Central -> Longstone, im unsure why this move has taken place. I will give an update on B7s as soon as i see any changes
 

317 forever

Established Member
Joined
21 Aug 2010
Messages
2,544
Location
North West
A triviality I noticed in Edinburgh at Easter is that, apart from City Airlink and East Coast Buses, Lothian buses from the 00s have mainly blue seats and from the 10s red seats.
 

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,170
A triviality I noticed in Edinburgh at Easter is that, apart from City Airlink and East Coast Buses, Lothian buses from the 00s have mainly blue seats and from the 10s red seats.
Yes, Lothian had a change of livery/interior spec in 2011 from the blue interior to the brown? one
 

SpeedbirdA350

Member
Joined
25 Feb 2018
Messages
698
Location
Edinburgh
A triviality I noticed in Edinburgh at Easter is that, apart from City Airlink and East Coast Buses, Lothian buses from the 00s have mainly blue seats and from the 10s red seats.
This will be becuase between 1999 and 2010, Lothian ran with harliquen livery, and changed back to madder. Harliquen livery were used initially to show the difference in buses between step and no step access, until they were rolled out over the entire fleet.
 

A7rud

Member
Joined
16 Aug 2016
Messages
337
Location
Edinburgh
East Coast Buses Open Day exhibits.
RCL 2241 (CUV 241C)
RCL 2248 (CUV 248C)
S602E (SSX 602V)
DD294A (TGM 214J)
ZH537C (BSG 537L)
and 10055, 20005 from current fleet
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top