Transport For Wales Livery

PaulHarding150 · 16 Apr 2019

Rhydgaled said:
PRM 153s! Never thought I would see that when both GWR and Northern elected to get rid of them instead. Are they going to remove the toilet or remove seats to fit in a PRM toilet? Or are they allowed to keep the present toilet as long as they are coupled to a 150 or 158 at all times from 1st Jan 2020 onwards?

PRM compliant toilet

RailUK Forums

Cardiff123 · 16 Apr 2019

PaulHarding150 said:
PRM compliant toilet

That's insane and will see a big decrease in seating capacity along with the wheelchair and bicycle areas. Would be better just having no toilet at all.

krus_aragon · 16 Apr 2019

Cardiff123 said:
That's insane and will see a big decrease in seating capacity along with the wheelchair and bicycle areas. Would be better just having no toilet at all.

The trouble is that the 153s (currently) spend a lot of their time on long-distance rural routes like Swansea - Pembroke Dock, and the Heart of Wales. Journey times of 2-3 hours plus without a toilet could lead to a lot of crossed legs. (Compare with the grumbling about operating the SE Metro with toiletless trains...)

bramling · 16 Apr 2019

mmh said:
Oh dear me no, please not this nonsense yet again.

Nobody is offended by the words on the side of a train, or seeing a language that isn't their first one.

If they are, it's an excellent indication that they're someone to just ignore.

I don’t think it’s about being offended, nobody seems to have raised much of an eyebrow about Arriva Trains Wales for the last couple of decades.

However, Transport for Wales is a much more political body than Arriva Trains Wales, ultimately accountable to the Welsh Assembly, a body over which English voters have no jurisdiction. It’s a quite legitimate concern that this setup could conceivably fail to deliver the best service for those areas in England.

We already see something similar in London, where it’s quite clear the mayor is only interested in the interests of Londoners, and stuff others who have business in Britain’s capital city.

Parochial political boundary setups rarely work well on the railway.

sd0733 · 16 Apr 2019

There was a shunt at Crewe this morning, a rubbed down 158, one coach totally rubbed down and the other rubbed down around the windows with a shiny bit where the numbers used to be just about readable as a coach from 158841.
158825 was also standing outside painted up in the new Tfw white.

Cardiff123 · 16 Apr 2019

What I really don't like about the TfW colour scheme is the amount of black they are using on recently re-painted stations. I was in North Wales at the weekend and the re-branded and re-painted stations had black poles, black text, black signage boards, white platform numbers on a black background. Is there a need for so much black?

ATW had a nice contrast with cream and turquoise, with Welsh text in turquoise and English in black. Instead TfW have gone with Welsh in black and English in grey, with hardly any red anywhere.
Seeing more red in the colour scheme would be better, and text in red/black for English and Welsh. No doubt when the interiors of trains start to get refurbished we'll get black poles & grab handles etc. Black almost everywhere is depressing and dull.

hobbm013 · 16 Apr 2019

Cardiff123 said:
What I really don't like about the TfW colour scheme is the amount of black they are using on recently re-painted stations. I was in North Wales at the weekend and the re-branded and re-painted stations had black poles, black text, black signage boards, white platform numbers on a black background. Is there a need for so much black?

ATW had a nice contrast with cream and turquoise, with Welsh text in turquoise and English in black. Instead TfW have gone with Welsh in black and English in grey, with hardly any red anywhere.
Seeing more red in the colour scheme would be better, and text in red/black for English and Welsh. No doubt when the interiors of trains start to get refurbished we'll get black poles & grab handles etc. Black almost everywhere is depressing and dull.

What station was this out of interest?

Cardiff123 · 16 Apr 2019

hobbm013 said:
What station was this out of interest?

2 or 3 have been re-branded on the North Wales coast, Wrexham General and Chirk were at least 2 I saw over the weekend.

Rhydgaled · 16 Apr 2019

krus_aragon said:
Cardiff123 said:

That's insane and will see a big decrease in seating capacity along with the wheelchair and bicycle areas. Would be better just having no toilet at all.

Click to expand...

The trouble is that the 153s (currently) spend a lot of their time on long-distance rural routes like Swansea - Pembroke Dock, and the Heart of Wales. Journey times of 2-3 hours plus without a toilet could lead to a lot of crossed legs. (Compare with the grumbling about operating the SE Metro with toiletless trains...)

I quite agree about wanting to make sure that there is always a toilet available, but even on the Heart Of Wales line I expect a single 153 with reduced seating capacity due to a PRM toilet could be filled often. It's much too far to stand as well as being much too far to go without a toilet. Since there is almost nowhere a single 153 with a PRM loo could be booked to run alone without running into seating capacity issues, it would seem more sensible to devise a means of bolting them to 150s in such a way that you couldn't accidently send a 153 out on its own (or pair the 153s up, to recreate some 155s; except that I think it's an odd number that TfW have) to avoid the cost of fitting PRM toilets (cost completely avoided if coupled to 150s, or reduced by half if they were turned back into 155s).

anamyd · 16 Apr 2019

Rhydgaled said:
pair the 153s up, to recreate some 155s (except that I think it's an odd number that TfW have)

TfW have the 8 ex-ATW 153s plus the 5 ex-GWR 153s, so it would be 6 "155s" plus a lone remaining "normal" 153

anamyd · 17 Apr 2019

List on page 9 updated.

article17_gdpr · 17 Apr 2019

anamyd said:
TfW have the 8 ex-ATW 153s plus the 5 ex-GWR 153s, so it would be 6 "155s" plus a lone remaining "normal" 153

I guess the lone one would be on the bay shuttle.
Though I seem to remember reading that the 153s weren't getting PRM modded and were being gotten rid of along with the Pacers at the end of the year? Did this change or was this never the case?
If the 150 I got on earlier was anything to go by a PRM 153 would be a bit of a joke space wise, looks like you'd struggle to get around the toilet very easily definitely with suitcase.

anamyd · 17 Apr 2019

article17_gdpr said:
I guess the lone one would be on the bay shuttle.
Though I seem to remember reading that the 153s weren't getting PRM modded and were being gotten rid of along with the Pacers at the end of the year? Did this change or was this never the case?
If the 150 I got on earlier was anything to go by a PRM 153 would be a bit of a joke space wise, looks like you'd struggle to get around the toilet very easily definitely with suitcase.

Ah yes, that would make sense!

I thought the same as you initially, that the 153s would be leaving for 2020 along with the Pacers, but I since found out that's not the case, and that it's only the Pacers and Mk3s leaving for 2020 (and 170s, 230s, 769s and Mk4s joining for 2020). After the vast majority of CAF and all Stadler trains are in service in 2023, it will be classes 150/153/158/175/769 leaving, then the 170s will stay and work different routes, and the mk4s will also stay and will carry on as normal, as will the 230s.

Do you happen to know which 150 you were on...? I've seen 285 and 284 with PRM mods and corrosion repair / mock ATW repaint, and 253 with PRM mods only.

craigybagel · 17 Apr 2019

article17_gdpr said:
I guess the lone one would be on the bay shuttle.
Though I seem to remember reading that the 153s weren't getting PRM modded and were being gotten rid of along with the Pacers at the end of the year? Did this change or was this never the case?
If the 150 I got on earlier was anything to go by a PRM 153 would be a bit of a joke space wise, looks like you'd struggle to get around the toilet very easily definitely with suitcase.

TfW have said from Day 1 that the 153s will get PRM modded - they've just not said it very loudly. It was in all the presentations about plans for rolling stock.

What they've not said is how it's going to work; will they only refurb half and work them as semi permanent 155s or refurb the lot but make sure they only work in multiple.

article17_gdpr · 17 Apr 2019

anamyd said:
Ah yes, that would make sense!

I thought the same as you initially, that the 153s would be leaving for 2020 along with the Pacers, but I since found out that's not the case, and that it's only the Pacers and Mk3s leaving for 2020 (and 170s, 230s, 769s and Mk4s joining for 2020). After the vast majority of CAF and all Stadler trains are in service in 2023, it will be classes 150/153/158/175/769 leaving, then the 170s will stay and work different routes, and the mk4s will also stay and will carry on as normal, as will the 230s.

Do you happen to know which 150 you were on...? I've seen 285 and 284 with PRM mods and corrosion repair / mock ATW repaint, and 253 with PRM mods only.

150257 iirc outside hasn't been repainted still has the worn down stripes. But the inside has the usb sockets, PRM toilet and from the difference in temperature with the one I'm on today I feel like it's had air con added aswell.

I suspect that it will be that some 153s get modded and work alone and some won't and will be bolted to 150s. Probably too much work to convert them back to 155s.

Cardiff123 · 17 Apr 2019

article17_gdpr said:
150257 iirc outside hasn't been repainted still has the worn down stripes. But the inside has the usb sockets, PRM toilet and from the difference in temperature with the one I'm on today I feel like it's had air con added aswell.

I suspect that it will be that some 153s get modded and work alone and some won't and will be bolted to 150s. Probably too much work to convert them back to 155s.

150s are not getting air con! Fixing the air con on the 158s is TfW's priority.
There's no way it would ever work on 150s with fully openable hopper windows at every seat.

anamyd · 17 Apr 2019

article17_gdpr said:
150257 iirc outside hasn't been repainted still has the worn down stripes. But the inside has the usb sockets, PRM toilet and from the difference in temperature with the one I'm on today I feel like it's had air con added aswell.

I suspect that it will be that some 153s get modded and work alone and some won't and will be bolted to 150s. Probably too much work to convert them back to 155s.

Thanks for confirming that 257 is PRM modified. It has everything else right like the PIS (internal and external LED displays and automated announcements) and door sounders, yeah...? And the "USB sockets" are combined with AC sockets like on 285 and presumably the other modified 150s...? 253 is the same as you describe; the reason 285 and 284 were repainted into that mock ex-ATW livery without stripes is because they've been corrosion repaired (new lower body metal) and the programme was started by ATW. (The 158 TfW liveries are just wraps, and when the 150s get TfW livery they'll also be wrapped).

61653 HTAFC · 17 Apr 2019

article17_gdpr said:
150257 iirc outside hasn't been repainted still has the worn down stripes. But the inside has the usb sockets, PRM toilet and from the difference in temperature with the one I'm on today I feel like it's had air con added aswell.

I suspect that it will be that some 153s get modded and work alone and some won't and will be bolted to 150s. Probably too much work to convert them back to 155s.

"Too much work" to convert them if you're removing the small cabs, which you'd want to do if you were expecting them to be in use long-term... but if you are using them long-term, that work and cost won't seem so bad.

They work in multiple as they are, so the only technical change is that they'd stay coupled to each other. I suppose using a fixed bar rather than the BSIs would be sensible in the long-term case.

CambrianCoast · 28 Apr 2019

158826 now has the Transport for Wales branding following its repaint as well as “Cymru a’r Gororau / Wales and Borders” added next to the TfW logo.

Cambrian359 · 28 Apr 2019

CambrianCoast said:
158826 now has the Transport for Wales branding following its repaint as well as “Cymru a’r Gororau / Wales and Borders” added next to the TfW logo.

That will please a lot of people

CambrianCoast · 28 Apr 2019

Cambrian359 said:
That will please a lot of people

Looks pretty good! Will be interesting to see what they’ll do with parts of the interior in terms of brand identity.

hobbm013 · 28 Apr 2019

CambrianCoast said:
158826 now has the Transport for Wales branding following its repaint as well as “Cymru a’r Gororau / Wales and Borders” added next to the TfW logo.

Are there any pictures circulating we could see?

FrodshamJnct · 28 Apr 2019

hobbm013 said:
Are there any pictures circulating we could see?

Anyone know what it’s due to be up to this week? Will try and get some photos if it’s on Manchester-Chester/Holyhead.

craigybagel · 28 Apr 2019

Tom Maddox said:
Anyone know what it’s due to be up to this week? Will try and get some photos if it’s on Manchester-Chester/Holyhead.

It's currently on its way to Cardiff from Manchester. It's due to spend the evening in Canton before heading out to Carmarthen at 2230, where it's due to spend the night.

anamyd · 29 Apr 2019

craigybagel said:
It's currently on its way to Cardiff from Manchester. It's due to spend the evening in Canton before heading out to Carmarthen at 2230, where it's due to spend the night.

is it due to be going back and forth to/from Carmarthen on 29/4/19...?

craigybagel · 29 Apr 2019

anamyd said:
is it due to be going back and forth to/from Carmarthen on 29/4/19...?

No idea sorry, I only have access to the diagrams as they appear each day. All I know at the moment is it's due to be starting with the 0530 Carmarthen - Pembroke Dock, which IIRC is the only 158 diagram that starts in Carmarthen anyway.

anamyd · 29 Apr 2019

craigybagel said:
No idea sorry, I only have access to the diagrams as they appear each day. All I know at the moment is it's due to be starting with the 0530 Carmarthen - Pembroke Dock, which IIRC is the only 158 diagram that starts in Carmarthen anyway.

no worries, thanks

Chris125 · 29 Apr 2019

hobbm013 said:
Are there any pictures circulating we could see?

This is the best I could find:

158826 TfW by John Smith, on Flickr

Jez · 29 Apr 2019

good photo. I saw it pass last night attached to a 150 on 2230 Cardiff-Carmarthen. It was too fast and dark to attempt a photograph! Im guessing it did the 11.00 Swansea to Fishguard and followed that diagram today? I think it will stay in South Wales for the week and return on Saturday or Sunday up to Shrewsbury? I don't think they swap 158s after 2 nights in the South any longer?

PHILIPE · 29 Apr 2019

Jez said:
good photo. I saw it pass last night attached to a 150 on 2230 Cardiff-Carmarthen. It was too fast and dark to attempt a photograph! Im guessing it did the 11.00 Swansea to Fishguard and followed that diagram today? I think it will stay in South Wales for the week and return on Saturday or Sunday up to Shrewsbury? I don't think they swap 158s after 2 nights in the South any longer?

Temporarily working 0910 Swansea to Newport, 150 attached 0912 Cardiff to Swansea working Fishguard

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