Current hybrid / short-/long-formed units on the network [Draft]

Following recent feedback, this thread has been created for reference by forum members on existing units on the national network which do not include coaches they were formed of from new on a "temporary" basis (even if longer term than usual). This includes those temporarily renumbered due to short-/long-forming. Once units are back in their original formation, relevant entries will be removed.

For the avoidance of doubt, this does not include loco-hauled coaching stock as these regularly get remarshalled and reformed. Also excluded are units which have been renumbered/reformed on a permanent basis (eg. 15895/6x, 15910x, 16832x, 171730, 1712/4xx, 3781/2xx, 3901xx, 4557xx).

150209: 57212 (ex-150212) + 57209 [from ????? - last checked 28/4/19]

172333: 50338 (ex-172338) + 56333 + 79333 [from ????? - last checked 29/4/19]
172338: 50333 (ex-172333) + 56338 + 79338 [from ????? - last checked 29/4/19]

175004: 50759 (ex-175109) + 79759 (ex-175109) [from ????? - last checked 29/4/19]
175005: 50705 + 79751 (ex-175101) [from ????? - last checked 29/4/19]

175101: 50751 + 56751 + 79704 (ex-175004) [from ????? - last checked 29/4/19]
175107: 50757 + 79757 (without 56757) [from ????? - last checked 28/4/19]
175109: 50704 (ex-175004) + 56759 + 79705 (ex-175005) [from ????? - last checked 28/4/19]

350103: 63713 + 66863 + 66813 + 63765 (ex-350105) [from ????? - last checked 28/4/19]
350105: 63715 + 66868 (ex-350108) + 66815 + 63763 (ex-350103) [from ????? - last checked 28/4/19]
350108: 63718 + 66865 (ex-350105) + 66818 + 63768 [from ????? - last checked 28/4/19]

350233: 61433 + 65233 + 67533 + 61546 (ex-350246) [from ????? - last checked 28/4/19]
350246: 61446 + 65246 + 67546 + 61564 (ex-350264) [from ????? - last checked 28/4/19]
350264: 61464 + 65264 + 67564 + 61533 (ex-350233) [from ????? - last checked 28/4/19]

377342 (ex-377442): 73442 + 78642 + 73842 (without 78842) [from ????? - last checked 28/4/19]

Updates and feedback welcome. Please post below with any comments.

As far as I know, 377342 doesn't have any vehicles from other units, it's just missing an intermediate carriage.

Most of the 3-car 158s fall into this category, 798 is the only one (159/1s excepted) that has the same formation it had from RRNE days.

150209 (57209/57212) is currently a permanent reformation as both 52 vehicles were written off in accidents pretty early in their careers; St Helens Central in 1988 for 52209, Seamer 1987 for 52212.
Yes, they have been used separately down the years....

West Midlands Trains 172333 and 172338 have never been reformed after a hybrid unit was formed following 2 separate fires 2 or 3 years ago.

The sets are currently formed:

172333 has 50338 replacing 50333
172338 has 50333 replacing 50338

377342 has been renumbered from 377442 after its intermediate vehicle was damaged by fire.

There must be more than one 175 running around with coaches from other units from various thermal events over the years.

The orphaned coaches from 150209 and 212 were part of 150125 and 126 when they were running with Great Western (numbered 150925 and 926).

These have subsequently transferred to Northern and although this may have been mentioned in the Northern Unit Refurbishments thread, the orphaned coaches may once more become part of 150125 and 126 again, possibly being dedicated to run Huddersfield - Sheffield via Penistone along with the three coach prototypes.

Thanks for all the input so far. I have limited it to current (mis)formation where they are not expected to revert to original formation sometime in the foreseeable future (eg. on lease expiry) for now as this thread is running as a trial so I would want to keep it fairly manageable and see how we go. Once this thread has established itself more and become more settled, we can start considering possibly extending the scope.

While I am able to confirm formation in TRUST once I become aware, unfortunately I am no expert in this field or that much in the loop with reformations, so any timely input or pointers are very welcome. Same applies with corrections. Any help with more details on when the current formation came into being (just the month is good in the absence of exact dates) would also be much appreciated.

Re: 150209, the use of these two orphaned cars always seems to be on the rumour mill so I have kept it in there for now, not really sure how long they will remain like that. The likes of 150925 have now gone back to original formation so not included. Setting out the exact scope with no grey area appears a little tricky but I am happy to hear alternative suggestions as the thread evolves.

GWR 158/9s are now permanently in 3-car formation AIUI with centre driving cabs decommissioned. I understand they will not need reverting to their original formation any time in the future?

@bb21 - I recently detailed the misformed Southern 455s if that's of any interest...?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southern-class-455-reformations.179051/#post-3903963

bb21 said:

175004: 50759 (ex-175109) + 79759 (ex-175109) [from ????? - last checked 29/4/19]

Click to expand...

That's interesting. Is there any particular reason this pairing did not keep the number 175109 (possibly with a third vehicle)? From a viewpoint that is both afar and not really that up with and interested in traction, it looks deliberately confusing!

adrock1976 said:

The orphaned coaches from 150209 and 212 were part of 150125 and 126 when they were running with Great Western (numbered 150925 and 926).

These have subsequently transferred to Northern and although this may have been mentioned in the Northern Unit Refurbishments thread, the orphaned coaches may once more become part of 150125 and 126 again, possibly being dedicated to run Huddersfield - Sheffield via Penistone along with the three coach prototypes.

Click to expand...

If the 3-car plans are still a thing, they'll be used on other services besides HUD-SHF. As I understood it the plan was for more than just those two sets to be formed.

bb21 said:

GWR 158/9s are now permanently in 3-car formation AIUI with centre driving cabs decommissioned. I understand they will not need reverting to their original formation any time in the future?

Click to expand...

I was under the impression that the GWR 158s were due to be formed back into 2 car units very shortly for their new life in Devon and Cornwall. I am sure I read it on here very recently.

By the way this thread is a great idea and I hope we can build on it.

bnsf734 said:

I was under the impression that the GWR 158s were due to be formed back into 2 car units very shortly for their new life in Devon and Cornwall. I am sure I read it on here very recently.

By the way this thread is a great idea and I hope we can build on it.

Click to expand...

Some are, the last I heard there will be 7 x 3 Car 158s and the remainder formed as 2 Car

PHILIPE said:

Some are, the last I heard there will be 7 x 3 Car 158s and the remainder formed as 2 Car

Click to expand...

Something that is puzzling me here is that at present, GWR have 12 hybrid three coach sets of Class 158s (originally 18 two coach sets in their original form). If it is intended that GWR would retain 7 sets, would there be an odd coach left over, or will there be a swap with Northern for a 2 coach set going there with a permanent 3 coach set as built coming to GWR?

adrock1976 said:

Something that is puzzling me here is that at present, GWR have 12 hybrid three coach sets of Class 158s (originally 18 two coach sets in their original form). If it is intended that GWR would retain 7 sets, would there be an odd coach left over, or will there be a swap with Northern for a 2 coach set going there with a permanent 3 coach set as built coming to GWR?

Click to expand...

It would make sense if its 7 3-car sets including the 'real' 3 car 798. Then as far as I can see there would be the 7 3-car sets plus 11 2-car sets (9 reformed out the /9s plus the 2 existing ones)

@bb21 - 507004 is formed of 64388 (ex 507022), 71345 and 64408.

377442 had its mild thermal event back in November 2016 (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/377-fire-at-eastbourne-28-11.138517/) to become 377342

You could probably add those 3x 378/2s which are currently 4-coaches for Goblin, as they will return to 5-coaches whenever the 710s enter service?