Caledonian Sleeper

theironroad · 1 May 2019

Please Explain said:
Ditto..
Absolutely 100% correct.

The regulations concerning this are called HIDDEN -(I think, introduced by a Lord? Hidden circa '89??).
Came about after the Clapham disaster, it was ruled safety critical personnel -(that being; Drivers, Guards, Dispatchers, Shunters, Signallers, COSS's or anyone else involved in the movement of stock) CANNOT work for more than twelve hours in any one turn, more than seventy-two in a week or more than thirteen consecutive days on duty and must have minimum twelve hours rest between turns of duty.
I think the hosts on the sleepers are non-SC staff and therefore exempt from HIDDEN, enabling them to work slightly more than the maximum twelve hours straight?

As for Drugs & Alcohol (D&A), this is ZERO TOLERANCE. Both random and "FOR CAUSE" med-screenings take place all the time across the industry and for those who test positive or refuse to cooperate = instant summarily dismissal...

We were indoctrinated with this from day one in the school.

Safety is above all else on the railway, period.

Please

gordonjahn said:
Surely this will all become app-based along the lines of airline and some hotel checkin processes?

You arrive at the station and open the CS App,

A geofenced area around the station presents your checkin options and directions (to a waiting room, to a platform, tells you when boarding starts, etc),

Optionally CS could have you scan a barcode that's at the station (maybe on the help point screens?) which proves you're in the right station (to double check geofencing),

The app downloads a room key to your phone to get you in to your room (and at some stations, through barriers),

The app presents your breakfast options and tells you how long you have to make your selections (or confirm/reselect if you pre-booked)

App offers to set a wake-up call at a specific time, predicted time from destination, (with optional "don't wake me if early!") - this data is transferred to the train where the alarm in your berth is triggered at the appropriate point in the journey

It's perhaps not all possible right now, but with the target hardware now available, someone (other than me!) will be thinking through how this can be made slicker for passengers. Staff time is then freed up to help people.. and hand out physical keys when mobile networks or wifi stops working.

Sounds good in theory, not quite sure how it will fit in with serco plans for a hotel experience on wheels. I guess a personal meet and greet is part of that at 'check in' rather than an app.

RailUK Forums

RLBH · 1 May 2019

Highlandspring said:
Perth platforms 4 and 7 both take (more than) 16. Of course if you end up with the full 16 in Perth then there’s been a problem somewhere else..

Perth is one of those stations where you can't avoid the feeling that it's fallen a long, long way from its prime. 3-car DMUs calling at platforms capable of handling 20 coaches and two locomotives seems like a waste.

d9009alycidon · 1 May 2019

Is thee a marker post beyond the platform at Carstairs to tell the driver where to stop so that his last coach is far enough past signal MC416 for the Edinburgh loco to reverse on and couple up?

theironroad · 1 May 2019

RLBH said:
Perth is one of those stations where you can't avoid the feeling that it's fallen a long, long way from its prime. 3-car DMUs calling at platforms capable of handling 20 coaches and two locomotives seems like a waste.

I guess the hsts will make it a bit better, but I must admit the station could do some major refurbishment. I imagine in its heyday it was a bright, clean bustling place. It always seems a bit gloomy and depressing these days.

6Z09 · 1 May 2019

Highlandspring said:
That’s two nights in a row that 1S26 has been delayed departing London due to various coach faults then encountered significant delay at Carstairs due to ‘problems’ with the split. It’s all very odd because everything was fine when they were doing the shadow testing!

Too much technology?
Like many cars now,perhaps the coaches have a mind of their own and become confused when split from their pals at Carstairs?
Hopefully these gremlins are sorted prior to the start of the more complex split of the Highlander at Waverley!

6Z09 · 1 May 2019

d9009alycidon said:
Is thee a marker post beyond the platform at Carstairs to tell the driver where to stop so that his last coach is far enough past signal MC416 for the Edinburgh loco to reverse on and couple up?

Route knowledge?
(Don't know if there is a marker)

gordonjahn · 1 May 2019

theironroad said:
Please

Sounds good in theory, not quite sure how it will fit in with serco plans for a hotel experience on wheels. I guess a personal meet and greet is part of that at 'check in' rather than an app.

It depends on the hotel - Hilton and Marriott will do self-checkin on apps already and Premier Inn (if I can remember the last time I was at a meeting at one) seem to have self-service terminals too. I know a lot of regular travellers who prefer the anonymity of being able to take several flights covering multiple continents and stay in multiple hotels, without ever having to talk to someone - the combination of airline, hotel and taxi apps makes it more than feasible.

xotGD · 1 May 2019

gordonjahn said:
It depends on the hotel - Hilton and Marriott will do self-checkin on apps already and Premier Inn (if I can remember the last time I was at a meeting at one) seem to have self-service terminals too. I know a lot of regular travellers who prefer the anonymity of being able to take several flights covering multiple continents and stay in multiple hotels, without ever having to talk to someone - the combination of airline, hotel and taxi apps makes it more than feasible.

How very sad. We are a social animal. Sharing a smile with a hotel receptionist is a positive experience.

matchmaker · 1 May 2019

jagardner1984 said:
It's an interesting question actually, ignoring current routes, on any main line, what stations do have platforms can take a full 16 car sleeper. In regular service:

Edinburgh Waverley
Carstairs
Carlisle
Preston
Crewe
Watford Junction
Newcastle
Doncaster

Any others ?

Perth and Aberdeen. Possibly Stirling.

125slamdoors · 1 May 2019

Scotrail84 said:
The highlighted stations can't take 16 vehicles. (Only platform 6 at crew as well.)

Which platforms at Waverley are long enough for 16 cars? Though it would just be 2,19 and 7,11 that are long enough but these are separate platforms.

marks87 · 1 May 2019

125slamdoors said:
Which platforms at Waverley are long enough for 16 cars? Though it would just be 2,19 and 7,11 that are long enough but these are separate platforms.

I think that somewhat ignores the spirit of the question.

But if you want to be pedantic:

"On any main line, what stations are capable of accommodating a full 16 car sleeper such that every door in every coach is against a platform?"

Mathew S · 1 May 2019

6Z09 said:
Route knowledge?
(Don't know if there is a marker)

I'm sure I've seen somewhere that there's a 'Z' stop marker.

Hipster Dashie · 1 May 2019

Posting r.e. the safety comments from my (passenger) perspective: I totally agree with everyone saying safety should come first.

I previously worked in a job (totally unrelated to the railways) as an intern where I would frequently work 12h+ shifts, often including nighttime work, every other night and every other weekend on call for emergencies. If you ended up working all night and didn't get the chance for sleep, too bad, you were working the following day whether you liked it or not.

Yes, this activity is likely in breach of a number of regulations and rights but it continued regardless. The tipping point came when after a 10 day period of working including getting up in the night, every night for that period, an emergency required an all-nighter on night 11. By this point being totally delirious from sleep deprivation, could not work effectively and the consequences were unfortunately catastrophic.

It's my own experience in this regard which means I extremely strongly defend my right to rest and free time, and the rights of others as well. If you're legally timetabled to have, say, a 12h break between shifts, then no ifs or buts, you're getting that break. If it makes the train an hour or so late, too bad.

Safety is priority.

Caleb2010 · 1 May 2019

Mathew S said:
I'm sure I've seen somewhere that there's a 'Z' stop marker.

There are ZZ stop markers beyond the platform's at a.few stations, I think Dalwhinnie and/or Kingussie at least have them.!

Butts · 1 May 2019

With all these delays I'm sure FLYBE, LOGANAIR, RYANAIR, BA and EASYJET must be rubbing their hands with glee.

It strikes me the whole enterprise is a vanity project, just look at the cost of the berths.

From Scotland particularly The North to the rest of the UK there is only one reasonably cheap (booked in advance) option.

It's quick, has multiple inter- UK connections and is more reliable.

Par Avion....every time !! - especially for smokers.

InOban · 1 May 2019

Ryanair are pulling out....., so I dare say the airfares will rise.

Mag_seven · 1 May 2019

InOban said:
Ryanair are pulling out

Pulling out of what?

Bald Rick · 1 May 2019

Butts said:
With all these delays I'm sure FLYBE, LOGANAIR, RYANAIR, BA and EASYJET must be rubbing their hands with glee.

The sleepers have had big delays before, and they will again. It’s nothing out of the ordinary. Unfortunate timing of course.

InOban said:
Ryanair are pulling out....., so I dare say the airfares will rise.

Mag_seven said:
Pulling out of what?

Ryanair have already pulled out of London - Glasgow, and are reducing London - Edinburgh from 4/5 rotations a day to a daily service Wed - Sunday only. But there won’t be many on those planes that would consider the sleeper as an alternative.

Nevertheless with 3 other airlines offering around 45 other London - Edinburgh flights between them, it will remain a very competitive market.

Butts · 1 May 2019

If they had a smoking room on The Sleeper it would be a positive addition to a 10 Hour Plus Journey.

Cigars and Cognac anyone ?

Hope all the staff are non-smokers - or is there a "Crianlarich Job" somewhere on the way up/down.

BRX · 1 May 2019

Bald Rick said:
The sleepers have had big delays before, and they will again. It’s nothing out of the ordinary. Unfortunate timing of course.
.

And if you look at the stats... Your chances of being delayed on the sleeper aren't really worse than when you fly.

_toommm_ · 1 May 2019

Butts said:
If they had a smoking room on The Sleeper it would be a positive addition to a 10 Hour Plus Journey.

Cigars and Cognac anyone ?

Hope all the staff are non-smokers - or is there a "Crianlarich Job" somewhere on the way up/down.

Only 3 minutes at Crainlarich unlike the ScotRails

Bald Rick · 1 May 2019

BRX said:
And if you look at the stats... Your chances of being delayed on the sleeper aren't really worse than when you fly.

But you’ll be much more likely to get your money back, or at least half of it.

Bald Rick · 1 May 2019

Butts said:
If they had a smoking room on The Sleeper it would be a positive addition to a 10 Hour Plus Journey.

Cigars and Cognac anyone ?

Hope all the staff are non-smokers - or is there a "Crianlarich Job" somewhere on the way up/down.

Presumably they are from the same hardy stock who work on long haul flights and other similar jobs where smoking is just not possible for a long shift.

Butts · 1 May 2019

BRX said:
And if you look at the stats... Your chances of being delayed on the sleeper aren't really worse than when you fly.

The big difference is that the rail delay on it's own is often longer than the flight time....

Butts · 1 May 2019

Bald Rick said:
Presumably they are from the same hardy stock who work on long haul flights and other similar jobs where smoking is just not possible for a long shift.

I was reminded of the draconian UK when I nearly tripped over an ashtray at Luxembourgs main Railway Station this afternoon.

BRX · 1 May 2019

Butts said:
The big difference is that the rail delay on it's own is often longer than the flight time....

Show us the stats that show the difference.

Bald Rick · 1 May 2019

Butts said:
The big difference is that the rail delay on it's own is often longer than the flight time....

But the same can be said for flight delays, no? Just you don’t get your money back* unless it’s at least 3 hours late and the airlines fault. Whereas on the sleeper you get a full refund for your trip if it’s more than an hour late, regardless of the cause.

* actually €250, regardless of how much the flight cost.

marks87 · 1 May 2019

Bald Rick said:
But the same can be said for flight delays, no? Just you don’t get your money back* unless it’s at least 3 hours late and the airlines fault. Whereas on the sleeper you get a full refund for your trip if it’s more than an hour late, regardless of the cause.

* actually €250, regardless of how much the flight cost.

And you have to jump through hoops to prove that it was in fact the airline's fault, in many cases escalating it to the CAA for an opinion.

It took me six months to get €250 from EasyJet; last time I needed delay repay (from VTEC, as was) I had it within a week.

Butts · 1 May 2019

Bald Rick said:
But the same can be said for flight delays, no? Just you don’t get your money back* unless it’s at least 3 hours late and the airlines fault. Whereas on the sleeper you get a full refund for your trip if it’s more than an hour late, regardless of the cause.

* actually €250, regardless of how much the flight cost.

I don't care how late a plane is as long as there is a bar and smoking area - once on a Train (and airside in some Airports) you are trapped.

A two hour delay on a sleeper from Aberdeen is almost twice the flight time never mind mind the many additional hours of the actual train journey.

It's horses for courses but being able to travel at 400/500 mph takes a lot of beating.

Clansman · 2 May 2019

Highlandspring said:
Perth platforms 4 and 7 both take (more than) 16. Of course if you end up with the full 16 in Perth then there’s been a problem somewhere else..

Perth can handle it with ease anyway - and so could Aberdeen without distincting the directional designations of 6 and 7. IIRC only 2 year ago when the Fort Bill was added to the Inverness portion, the sleeper comprised of 12 coaches (9 Mk3s, 3 Mk2s (2 seated)) - which I think just fitted in Inverness with no more to spare.

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