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Rail companies overcharging long distance passengers by "£750m"

If prices have to change, how should this be done?

  • Lower priced fares should INCREASE

    Votes: 1 5.9%
  • Higher priced fares should DECREASE in price

    Votes: 11 64.7%
  • Both lower priced fares should increase, AND higher priced fares should decrease

    Votes: 5 29.4%

  • Total voters
    17
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43068

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25 Aug 2013
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24
From https://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/virgin-trains-and-rail-franchising
It is something of an open secret in the industry that four other current franchises are now also struggling. And that’s before the £750m risk of split-ticketing and potential £7.5bn of pensions risk are applied across the industry....
The other stuff is already being discussed elsewhere, so this thread is to focus on the fact that Virgin Trains has identified £750m as the value of additional revenue obtained by train companies by charging people more than the cheapest combination of valid fares.

I'm sure the vast majority of readers will know that train companies tend to charge medium to long distance journeys at a premium compared to shorter distance journeys, for example the cost of journeys like Reading to Birmingham is considerably higher than the cost of its component parts: it can be as little as a third of the price (ie. two thirds off!) in cases such as that.

Train companies such as Virgin Trains are very worried because it used to be the case that passengers had to do their own research, but now websites will calculate the cheapest ticket so literally anyone can avoid being overcharged without any prior knowledge, just by using the right website.

Virgin Trains, Cross Country and others are very keen to get Government approval to increase the price of the shorter distance prices, so that those who currently save money are no longer able to do so.

They are worried that their revenues will reduce, due to increasing numbers of people avoiding the current overcharge.

Of course, the train companies could reduce the price of the longer distance tickets. However if they did this, they would collectively earn £750m less income from customers, as the overcharge would no longer be made. Clearly that is not a viable option for train companies, hence why they are keen to ensure the Government steps in and increases the cost of the cheaper fares.

It does not have to be this way; the Government could choose to increase subsidies by this amount and ask train companies to reduce the price of longer distance tickets. This would result in Reading to Birmingham reducing in price, without increasing the price of the shorter intermediate journeys.

In fact this did happen in Scotland in 2013: https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13098598.1500-rail-fare-anomalies-ended-by-23m-grant/
Over 1,500 "split ticketing" inconsistencies will end thanks to a £2.28 million grant from Transport Scotland.

It is said the move will ensure that end-to-end fares will be at least 50p cheaper than buying one ticket part of the way to a destination, and a second ticket to complete the journey.
However £2.28m was not sufficient to end all the "anomalies" in Scotland, and when the funding ended, Scotrail was keen to retain the overcharge for the remaining fares that cost more than a combination of tickets.

Did anyone realise the overcharge was as high as £750m?

Does anyone have access to the calculations used to reach the figure quoted by Virgin Trains? Presumably it is an annual figure?
 
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yorksrob

Veteran Member
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The policy of driving down operational rail subsidy should be replaced by one to see subsidy stabilised. This is the root of a lot of poor value fares on the railway.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
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Messages
15,215
What represents poor Value fares is in the eye of the beholder. For example, employers justify paying for one/two-hundred pound fares for staff to go to meetings etc. due to the value this brings to their businesses.
 

NSEFAN

Established Member
Joined
17 Jun 2007
Messages
3,504
Location
Southampton
The policy of driving down operational rail subsidy should be replaced by one to see subsidy stabilised. This is the root of a lot of poor value fares on the railway.
The problem is that demand vastly outstrips supply of capacity for these routes. Building new lines and running longer trains costs money. So the DfT and TOCs are better off pricing people off the trains rather than increasing capacity and running with lower returns / greater subsidy and investment. Of course there are very good environmental reasons for getting people out of cars/planes and into trains, but from a purely economic view the current approach taken is understandable. Hopefully HS2 will go a fair way to resolving this by adding a load more North-south intercity capacity.
 

anme

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2013
Messages
1,777
What represents poor Value fares is in the eye of the beholder. For example, employers justify paying for one/two-hundred pound fares for staff to go to meetings etc. due to the value this brings to their businesses.

Please don't use the "companies are a magic money tree" argument again.
 
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