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GCR(N) vandalism causes thousands of pounds of damage

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Malcmal

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Filthy scum strike again - hopefully some incurable illness is heading in their direction :arrow:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-48134362

"Vandalism causing an estimated £80,000 of damage has been carried out at a historic railway site.

More than 100 railway carriage windows were smashed at the Great Central Railway Heritage Centre in Ruddington on Monday.

Two boys aged 14 and 12 have been arrested on suspicion of criminal damage and have been released on bail, Nottinghamshire Police said.

Officers are continuing to investigate and are appealing for more witnesses."
 
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mpthomson

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Whilst I agree that what's happened is terrible and needs dealing with under law, it's interesting that you are wishing death and pain on children. A tad disproportionate perhaps?
 

Dougal2345

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Whilst I agree that what's happened is terrible and needs dealing with under law, it's interesting that you are wishing death and pain on children. A tad disproportionate perhaps?
Let's not have this conversation please...
 

randyrippley

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to be brutally honest, both the carriages shown in the news report look only fit for the scrapheap anyway. The DMU looks to be a rustbucket, the mk2 looks so full of algae on the ceiling that you'd think the roof was porous.
I don't condone what the kids did, but from their point of view they were probably thinking "its all scrap anyway, lets have some fun...."

Until railways get out of the habit of keeping old junk lying around, making their sites looking like scrapyards, this situation is going to repeat and repeat. There's too much old garbage lying around awaiting its day to be restored: a day that's never going to come. Time to get rid of it all, clean up the railways and remove temptation
 
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to be brutally honest, both the carriages shown in the news report look only fit for the scrapheap anyway. The DMU looks to be a rustbucket, the mk2 looks so full of algae on the ceiling that you'd think the roof was porous.
I don't condone what the kids did, but from their point of view they were probably thinking "its all scrap anyway, lets have some fun...."

Until railways get out of the habit of keeping old junk lying around, making their sites looking like scrapyards, this situation is going to repeat and repeat. There's too much old garbage lying around awaiting its day to be restored: a day that's never going to come. Time to get rid of it all, clean up the railways and remove temptation
Absolutely agree 100%. I am involved with a line which is renting offsite accommodation to house un-restored stuff under cover and out of sight. It helps if this stuff is in unified ownership
 

yorksrob

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Personally I enjoy having old restoration projects to look at when I visit a preserved railway.

We don't all want a chocolate box theme park.
 
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Personally I enjoy having old restoration projects to look at when I visit a preserved railway.

We don't all want a chocolate box theme park.
Not many "normals" want a compost heap theme park though. All too often this is what they get when they visit a tourist railway so they are likely to take their custom elsewhere.
 

yorksrob

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Not many "normals" want a compost heap theme park though. All too often this is what they get when they visit a tourist railway so they are likely to take their custom elsewhere.

So long as the trains and stations that they use are tidy and well maintained, I don't see that it's any of the "normal"s business what goes on in the maintenance yard.
 
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So long as the trains and stations that they use are tidy and well maintained, I don't see that it's any of the "normal"s business what goes on in the maintenance yard.
They pay, so it is their business. Often people are very interested in seeing work going on but that is not the same as views of semi dismantled wreckage that has not been touched in decades. Railway enthusiasts often seem purblind that their cherished railway is in competition for income with country houses, zoos, arboreta and the like.
 

Harpers Tate

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Sad, but true. Many preserved lines are blighted by what many would consider to be a lineside junkyard. They are very restricted, of course, in that they have taken over part of a route that, typically, would never have had to host stock etc., that is spare and/or under maintenance/restoration. But it remains a shame that they cannot hide this stuff away, in a siding or depot that is normally out of view - as al sorts of other attractions do. Were they so able, they may also be better able to secure their property.
 

yorksrob

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They pay, so it is their business. Often people are very interested in seeing work going on but that is not the same as views of semi dismantled wreckage that has not been touched in decades. Railway enthusiasts often seem purblind that their cherished railway is in competition for income with country houses, zoos, arboreta and the like.

Those of us who like to see works in progress and interesting vehicles, also pay. Not everyone wants an overly manicured, sterile environment.

A good railway will have plenty of pretty countryside to gaze at. If you really can't cope with a bit of industrial archaology here and there, perhaps its not for you.
 

Worf

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So it is ok for little Jimmy to smash up other peoples property because it looks neglected?
This country is going down the pan.
 

underbank

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They pay, so it is their business. Often people are very interested in seeing work going on but that is not the same as views of semi dismantled wreckage that has not been touched in decades. Railway enthusiasts often seem purblind that their cherished railway is in competition for income with country houses, zoos, arboreta and the like.

Is there any evidence at all that preserved lines lose potential customers due to the sight of scrapyard sidings?

Personally, I think it is the least of their woes. Far more important to the average Joe Public and family is the poor state of coaching stock. I've been on some preserved lines where the coaching stock itself looks like it should be in a scrapyard, i.e. internal doors and windows that won't open/close, cracked/broken toilets/sinks, filfthy seats, dirty windows spoiling the view, etc. I was on the East Lancs Mince Pie special on Boxing Day and we literally couldn't see out of the windows - they were caked with filth and grime and yes, that really did spoil the day for us, in fact I nipped out at one station with my wife's packet of wet-ones and tried to clean it myself - the cloths were absolutely black and it barely had any impact at all. Strangely, I've found it's the bigger and more well known lines that have poor coaching stock - some of the smaller and less well known ones have immaculate stock (given its age) and clearly regard cleaning and basic maintenance as important. For the average family looking for a day out, I think this kind of thing is more likely to encourage/discourage them than a few rusty trucks in a siding.
 

38Cto15E

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Two boys, 12 yo and 14 yo have been arrested and bailed over the incident according to BBC EM News.
 

Llanigraham

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Those of us who like to see works in progress and interesting vehicles, also pay. Not everyone wants an overly manicured, sterile environment.

A good railway will have plenty of pretty countryside to gaze at. If you really can't cope with a bit of industrial archaology here and there, perhaps its not for you.

You may pay, but you are also a very small minority of those that do visit.
And from my experience are also the visitors who spend the least amount of money when they do visit.
 

The_Train

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Why do so many people on here want to blame the railway for everything? I'm by no means one of these enthusiasts at the other end of the scale ie thinking the railways are perfect but to blame the railway for having stock that they own vandalised whilst it sits within the perimeter of land that they own is just crazy.

The only people to blame are the culprits for trespassing and causing criminal damage.
 

AndrewE

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Does anybody know why a picture of a signal box interior was included in the report?
_106764616_5c3b3314-3b96-4bb9-9b97-66c2455a0e74.jpg

It just looks as though it is being worked on or rebuilt to me, and it isn't mentioned as having suffered damage.
 

Malcmal

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Why do so many people on here want to blame the railway for everything? I'm by no means one of these enthusiasts at the other end of the scale ie thinking the railways are perfect but to blame the railway for having stock that they own vandalised whilst it sits within the perimeter of land that they own is just crazy.
.

Certain self-appointed members of the "fun and happiness police" on here exist for no other purpose :lol:

At least it's how it looks to me....
 

Alanko

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I've been meaning to sign up to this forum for quite some time (the heritage railways trying to have it 'both ways' thread got me 90% of the way there). Maybe not the best first post, but here goes.

When I first saw the photos of this vandalism, on Twitter of all places, I was upset but not especially surprised, as it isn't the first case of small railways being vandalised that I've heard of; in the last year alone. I also assumed that there would be an angry knee-jerky over-reaction from the 'cut off there (sic) hands' mob online. It looks like I was right!

to be brutally honest, both the carriages shown in the news report look only fit for the scrapheap anyway. The DMU looks to be a rustbucket, the mk2 looks so full of algae on the ceiling that you'd think the roof was porous.

This is what I thought when I saw the photos as well. This doesn't excuse the behaviour of the miscreants in any way, but derelict property tends to attract vandalism. This isn't unique to the world of railways or transport. Let a building sit idle for too long without any security measures and it will be picked clean, and every window will be smashed.

Personally I enjoy having old restoration projects to look at when I visit a preserved railway.

I'm one of those people who like looking to see what is on the 'dump' when I visit new airports. This probably puts me in the 1% of travellers through a given airport.

I'm in two minds about heritage railways though. At their best (or at least most fiscally viable) they present a sort of sanitised version of the past that never actually existed. It gives visitors the chance to imagine they are extras in an adaptation of an Agatha Christie novel. Like in the historic aviation world, this can get overly saccharin very quickly, and it can appear that more time is spent on various '50s nights, '30s nights, swing bands, dinners and dressing up than actually restoring aircraft.

At the same time there are many aviation museums with one Meteor rotting into the weeds, one Vulcan with water pouring through the wings, lots of faded, peeling paint and lots of hazed over cockpit canopies. The spotters and aviation diehards prefer the latter, right down to the yellowed, hand-typed scraps of paper telling you what each crudely excavated shard of scrap metal supposedly belonged to. The bulk of visitors probably want a 'Duxford' or 'Cosford' experience; especially if they have kids in tow. The aircraft (much as the trains) are just part of the bigger package and experience.

Probably the heritage railway and historic aviation world share a lot of the same elements here. There are lots of people willing to tell the small museums above exactly which aircraft should be preserved, and how badly they got the shade of grey wrong, and why they are idiots for making some other minor transgression or historic inaccuracy. Said 'enthusiasts' don't always dip especially deeply into their own pockets to correct these errors.You can't really avoid the fact, however, that a lot of these museums are aircraft graveyards which exist more for the indulgence of retired men who wish to spanner aircraft for a few hours a week, away from 'er indoors. The heritage railway community seems likewise to be littered with numerous 'The Class (whatever) Preservation Society' outfits with their circa 1998 Geocities websites and rotting slabs of defunct traction dumped along a heritage line somewhere in the middle of nowhere. In both camps "restoration projects" is probably hopelessly optimistic thetoric used to refer to scrap metal. 45015 on the Battlefield Line, for example, is simply dodging the cutting torch out of sheer luck. With all the will in the world it will never move again under its own power. I got pretty tired of the various aviation restoration groups who were going to be doing something within the next couple of months... then again I never donated that much money to them!


In terms of promoting the message of "this outfit have their stuff together and have a sustainable business model", long lines of faded mk1s, anonymous rusting boilers dumped in the weeds, rotting colliery engines, and a Class 26 under a tarp that hasn't been touched since 1991, don't really cut it. Likewise most people probably don't want to see knackered aeroplanes when they visit an airport or museum as it suggests the place is disorganised, run by chancers of fantasists, and is potentially a dangerous place to be.

And any rotting stuff attracts Urbex-ers and vandals in no short order.

So it is ok for little Jimmy to smash up other peoples property because it looks neglected?
This country is going down the pan.

Vandalism isn't a new phenomenon. The difference is that we hear about it more readily, and we hear about cases from further away. The Twitter-sphere also helps to perpetuate a sort of continuous loop of anger as well. Don't worry, something new will be along shortly to make you even more angry.

I don't understand those who take relish in pointing out how steeply in decline this country supposedly is. Especially when such types are fairly often rabid nationalists who are the first to proclaim their love for that same country. I think it must be an age thing! :E
 

randyrippley

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So it is ok for little Jimmy to smash up other peoples property because it looks neglected?
This country is going down the pan.

If someone can't be bothered to look after their own property and leaves it seemingly neglected, rotting and rusting away, what right do they have to expect other people to treat that apparent rubbish with more respect than they do themselves?
I it looks like junk it will get regarded as junk and treated accordingly.
Its not just the preserved lines that are the problem..........those abandoned vans owned by WCRC at Long Preston are an example on the main network, while as for Carnforth, there's enough scrap there to keep Ward's in business for years
 
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Those of us who like to see works in progress and interesting vehicles, also pay. Not everyone wants an overly manicured, sterile environment.
Unfortunately railway enthusiasts - whether they 'also pay' or not - are in the minority when it comes to those who visit preserved railways. Alas, this is a truism that so many of them continue to be in absolute denial about.

A good railway will have plenty of pretty countryside to gaze at. If you really can't cope with a bit of industrial archaology here and there, perhaps its not for you.
There's a huge difference between 'works in progress and interesting vehicles' or 'a bit of industrial archaeology' and 'stuff rotting away that looks awful and realistically doesn't have a snowball in hell's chance of actually being restored'.

Preserved railways understandably have an attitude of 'get it while you can or else it'll be too late', but I think there is a balance to be had with that sentiment and just keeping stuff for the sake of it 'just in case' the funds and wo/manpower might one day be available to restore it.

It's equally understandable that the nostalgia business and reality checks are not the most comfortable of bedfellows. By and large preserved railways understandably don't want to scrap things, but otherwise you end up with what's known as correspondent Paul Hitchcock's 'linear scrapyard', a sentiment which I wholeheartedly agree with.

This in no way excuses the behaviour of the half-witted little scroats but, as has been stated upthread, decay tends to attract decay.
 
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I don't understand those who take relish in pointing out how steeply in decline this country supposedly is. Especially when such types are fairly often rabid nationalists who are the first to proclaim their love for that same country. I think it must be an age thing! :E
One thing you've omitted to mention is that the vocal 'we're going to hell in a handcart/hang em and flog em' brigade always talks a good game... but never seems to do anything at all constructive to try and improve matters. That, of course, is far better left to somebody else... :rolleyes:
 

Malcmal

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If someone can't be bothered to look after their own property and leaves it seemingly neglected, rotting and rusting away, what right do they have to expect other people to treat that apparent rubbish with more respect than they do themselves?
I it looks like junk it will get regarded as junk and treated accordingly.

What a ridiculous statement!!! I highlighted the key word myself.

Seeing as people are insisting calling these little "darlings" children who cannot be expected to think properly for themselves or be held responsible in any meaningful adult way - then how can you seriously expect this kind of vandal to stop at the end of the "linear scrapyard" (© Fun Police) and not continue onwards with the polished and clearly loved assets?

The LNER teak set that got smashed up was definitely not rotting away and yet we all know what went on there.
 

Worf

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I don't understand those who take relish in pointing out how steeply in decline this country supposedly is. Especially when such types are fairly often rabid nationalists who are the first to proclaim their love for that same country. I think it must be an age thing! :E

Possibly because your "rabid nationalists" who do love their country don't want it to decline any further ?

I see it is also trendy to be "ageist" now.

Years ago, who would have thought that the lines of derelict scrap locos at Woodhams would now be restored and saved for future generations?
There is no excuse for trespass/vandalism on other peoples property
 
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Possibly because your "rabid nationalists" who do love their country don't want it to decline any further ?
So what are they going to actually do about it, then? Other than taking the easy option of feeling better about themselves because they've complained on an internet forum? Which achieves... what, in real practical terms?

By the way, as an old fart myself, I disagree with Alanko's ageist comment... but that's pretty much the only thing in his post I do disagree with.
 
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