Tfl fare evasion accusation

I have been advised of possible prosecution.

Below is what happened
On my way to work on the 1st May 2019 I was travelling from Morden station to Tooting Broadway station. I have a month travel pass on my oyster although for zone 4 to 5 and an additional pay as you go credit. My Oyster is usually a minimum of a week topped up, as a matter of fact the travel pass for the last week zone 3 to 4 just got expired and was renewed on the 30th of April 2019 at Tooting Broadway station.

I touched in at morden station and touched out at Tooting Broadway. Unfortunately, as I was rushing to a meeting for 8 am and it was already passed 8 am with a lot of passengers waiting to touch out, the oyster was not touched out properly. The inspector who was directly standing in front of me on the other side of the barrier noted that my oyster was not touched properly and stopped me. He said I did not touched out and I immediately apologised and told him that I didn't realise my oyster was not registered as touched out as I was already late for a meeting and I offered to re- touch out again. He insisted on taken my detail which I gave to him. Even though I was already outside the station barrier he asked me to come inside the station with him.He went further to ask for my country of birth and threatened me with criminal prosecution on fare evasion.

Following the collection of my details I asked if he was going to give me a copy of what he has written down but he refused. He asked me to sign a paper where he has written down different information but I declined, given that I will not be given a copy. Upon completion of his interrogation, I was given my oyster card and I touched out and left the station. On my way out of the station, I heard him saying excuse me and shouting that I will not escape prosecution. I believe his expectation was for me not to touch out.

I wish to reiterate that it was not my intention not to touch out and that I had a valid oyster card and credit covering the whole of my journey and ultimately paid for all my journey. Although I did not touch out properly on this occasion but i reject any claim of fare evasion.

I believe the member of TFL staff in question was desperately aiming to get my details down for possible penalty or prosecution at all cost. I also believe this member of staff misrepresented what the TFL organisation stand for.

Please any advise on the above event

I would download your Oyster history. If there is regular use of pay as you go outside your zones, and no history of incomplete journeys, then combined with the presence of the credit on the card, it will be good evidence against any charge of avoiding the fare due. You may however be guilty of a byelaw offence - I am not overly familiar with TfL byelaws.

The fact that you subsequently touched out will not affect any prosecution. All it could do is prevent TfL claiming compensation as part of any prosecution, as the fare has now been paid and as such they have suffered no loss. The compensation, however, would be a tiny proportion of what you would have to pay if prosecuted.

IF TfL contact you, please come back to us with more detail. I presume that, for some reason, the ticket barriers had been left open on this occasion?

It was a rush hour someone was in front of me and I was too quick to touch after them and the gate remained open

Mik23 said:

It was a rush hour someone was in front of me and I was too quick to touch after them and the gate remained open

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I suspect TfL think you are a regular "tailgater" - someone who pushes in behind another passenger to use their touch in or out through the gates . This would have to be done at both start and finish of the journey for maximum fare evasion benefit. From your recent journey history it might be worth noting those days without an Oyster record and collecting evidence to show you didn't travel that day. I think it unlikely they have any proof of persistent evasion.

Maybe if he was confident of a successful prosecution even when you touched out, he wouldn't have shouted.

Can you confirm that: you had a valid monthly ticket, which zones it was for (you've mentioned both 3-4 and 4-5), that you had sufficient PAYG credit to cover any part of the journey not covered by your monthly pass, and exactly what you have been accused/are suspected of.

Thanks.

najaB said:

Can you confirm that: you had a valid monthly ticket, which zones it was for (you've mentioned both 3-4 and 4-5), that you had sufficient PAYG credit to cover any part of the journey not covered by your monthly pass, and exactly what you have been accused/are suspected of.

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Is it yes, a month for 4-5 and a week for 3-4, yes, and fare evasion if they write?

Mik23 said:

I have a month travel pass on my oyster although for zone 4 to 5 and an additional pay as you go credit. My Oyster is usually a minimum of a week topped up, as a matter of fact the travel pass for the last week zone 3 to 4 just got expired and was renewed on the 30th of April 2019 at Tooting Broadway station.

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Mik23 said:

I wish to reiterate that it was not my intention not to touch out and that I had a valid oyster card and credit covering the whole of my journey and ultimately paid for all my journey.

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some bloke said:

Is it yes, a month for 4-5 and a week for 3-4, yes, and fare evasion if they write?

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The week for 3-4 will actually be PAYG credit. You can't store overlapping travelcards on an Oyster card AFAIK.

Surely if you'd touched-in (but didn't touch-out correctly), your fare would be the daily cap and more than the amount you were allegedly trying to avoid. Wouldn't your TfL history show this transaction?

Western Sunset said:

Surely if you'd touched-in (but didn't touch-out correctly), your fare would be the daily cap and more than the amount you were allegedly trying to avoid. Wouldn't your TfL history show this transaction?

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Yeah I would have thought this too. Surely it's only fare evasion if you didn't touch in also, as failure to touch out only would result in being charged more than the fare owed.

With regard to the RCI shouting and behaving in that manner, it is a sad fact that there are a number of people in that job who behave in this way and give a bad name to their colleagues who do the job well and have a positive attitude. I've spoken to a number of revenue and enforcement staff working for different companies who hold the passengers in absolute contempt, and that is wrong. Whether anyone is deliberately evading their fare or not it's never an excuse for staff to get arsey. It's their job and they should exercise a bit of professionalism.

bionic said:

I've spoken to a number of revenue and enforcement staff working for different companies who hold the passengers in absolute contempt, and that is wrong. Whether anyone is deliberately evading their fare or not it's never an excuse for staff to get arsey. It's their job and they should exercise a bit of professionalism.

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Agreed. You wouldn't imagine the police being like this if they caught someone (well, sometimes they are, but it just highlights those who are unprofessional).

It is easy to be in a rush and "think" you've tapped out - especially in the rush hour

Surely, if the OP touched in successfully at the start of his journey, there was no intent to avoid paying the fare?

I'm not an expert - have I got this right?

MikeWh said:

The week for 3-4 will actually be PAYG credit. You can't store overlapping travelcards on an Oyster card AFAIK.

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The TfL Conditions of Carriage say,

3.3.3 If your Oyster card or smartcard has more than one Travelcard on it and they are valid on
the same date(s), you must ensure that your tickets cover all the zones you travel through at all
times.

Western Sunset said:

if you'd touched-in (but didn't touch-out correctly), your fare would be the daily cap and more than the amount you were allegedly trying to avoid.

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With PAYG the system would charge the maximum fare rather than a daily cap, but...

robert7111a said:

Surely, if the OP touched in successfully at the start of his journey, there was no intent to avoid paying the fare?

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If a 4-5 travelcard on Oyster allows not touching out, with no maximum fare, then when you exit the Zone 3 station the system doesn't charge for the 4-3 part unless you touch out.

But if the OP means a valid 3-4 travelcard by "travel pass", then it doesn't matter if they touched out or not in the first place.

Western Sunset said:

Surely if you'd touched-in (but didn't touch-out correctly), your fare would be the daily cap and more than the amount you were allegedly trying to avoid. Wouldn't your TfL history show this transaction?

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bionic said:

Yeah I would have thought this too. Surely it's only fare evasion if you didn't touch in also, as failure to touch out only would result in being charged more than the fare owed.

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No, because the OP said they have a zone 4-5 Travelcard and entered the system at Morden. As Morden is zone 4 and you can do a journey from Morden in the validity of the Travelcard there would be no entry charge deducted if you touch in there.

Accordingly upon exit at Tooting there would have been a requirement to touch out because there would have been a fare to pay for travel outside of the paid for Travelcard zones.

The Inspector would have stopped the OP because he doubled out behind a customer who opened the barrier with their own ticket.

Just re-read the original post. The OP travelled from Morden (zone 4) to Tooting Broadway (zone 3). They say they have a recently topped-up weekly "travel pass" for zones 3 and 4, which was in date at the time of the journey. Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly, but if they'd entered the system with it at Morden, then there must be some form of record of that on TfLs system.

Mojo said:

The Inspector would have stopped the OP because he doubled out behind a customer who opened the barrier with their own ticket.

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You can't 'double out' by accident.

The OP stated that the inspector asked them for their country of birth. I cannot think of any reason why their country of birth would be of relevance. Surely the conditions of use for Oyster cards are the same regardless of where in the world someone was born ?

I'd have thought that the conditions of use of ANY ticket (except maybe the HM forces railcard) would be the same for anyone irrespective of nationality. Wonder if there is some racial aspect to this if the OP was asked for their nationality?

Could the OP please confirm exactly what Travelcards he held that were valid at the time he travelled?

sheff1 said:

The OP stated that the inspector asked them for their country of birth. I cannot think of any reason why their country of birth would be of relevance. Surely the conditions of use for Oyster cards are the same regardless of where in the world someone was born ?

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It is a standard question in order to establish the identity of a person, Inspectors will make similar notes such as skin colour, any identifying body marks/tattoos, and similar.

bionic said:

You can't 'double out' by accident.

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Fare evasion is rife on Oyster especially with the 'double shuffle' technique :-/

bionic said:

You can't 'double out' by accident.

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It's quite easy to do, particularly through the two directional wide gates.

bionic said:

You can't 'double out' by accident.

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Oh you absolutely can.

By accident? Really? Unless you are right up the backside of the person in front you ain't getting through without it at least partially closing on you. I've seen countless people double-gating but I've never yet seen one person who has done it by accident and not known.

MikeWh said:

Oh you absolutely can.

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Especially at 8am on a weekday.

Here is a person denying an offence, whose record will show they touched out, who did not sign anything, and who has on the face of it a plausible explanation.

Although staff perceptions of passengers' actions and attitudes (which are hard to read from passengers' accounts) may often make a big difference, would anyone say that on this evidence the chances are high of TfL writing to the OP? Does the touch-out change the situation significantly?

some bloke said:

Here is a person denying an offence, whose record will show they touched out, who did not sign anything, and who has on the face of it a plausible explanation.

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After they were stopped by the RPI though.

najaB said:

After they were stopped by the RPI though.

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Yes. That's what my question is about. Also, is it possible the "inspector" wasn't actually an RPI, which might increase the chance TfL won't write?

some bloke said:

Yes. That's what my question is about. Also, is it possible the "inspector" wasn't actually an RPI, which might increase the chance TfL won't write?

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Well if it was the Underground, it would have been a Revenue Control Inspector (RCI) and not an RPI, but that’s just pedantry.

Guys, do you think i can be prosecuted simply because I did not touch out properly. I had more than enough credit on my oster + a month pass for 4 to 5. And re touch out. No evidence of any historical not payment of fare.