• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Trainline (and TOCs that use them) railcard overcharging issues.

Status
Not open for further replies.

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,632
For a few weeks now I have seen countless complaints to Trainline and companies that use their booking engine such as Cross Country and EMT referring to overcharging for railcard users on (usually) early morning services.

What is happening?
A user with a 16-25 railcard wishes to make a return journey and despite having bought tickets before they’re suddenly several pounds more expensive.
Examples of this are Burton on Trent to Birmingham. Nottingham to Leicester.

Social media teams are straight into stock responses such as £12 minimum fares and advances are cheaper and neither of these are directly related.

It seems the issue comes from the ticket type. For some reason on SOME platforms (computer related not station related) if you select an open return then you are offered the CDR or SDR as relevant. But if you select a return and put in a time (same date of course) then you’re only offered the SVR or SOR as applicable.

This issue seems to crop up where an outward journey is in the ‘void’ between the off peak restriction finishing (say 0930) and the railcard minimum fare restriction finishing.

I can no longer generate one to give an example but other people still can. I shall try to obtain some to post here.

The issue is that regular users will spot this and complain if they notice it’s different or to those less familiar they’ll just complain that the fair has gone up 40% in a week.
Unfamiliar occasional users will just pay it and think nothing of it. There could be hundreds of these and thousands in unnecessary cost between them.

It seems despite talks and explanations nothing is being done about this. The cynic in me says that errors in favour of the railway are never really the highest priority but I appreciate that isn’t really true.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
It's possible, I suppose. It's also possible that it has already been fixed, based on what you've written, and the "other people" who said they could reproduce it were basing this on what had happened earlier.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,725
For a few weeks now I have seen countless complaints to Trainline and companies that use their booking engine such as Cross Country and EMT referring to overcharging for railcard users on (usually) early morning services.

What is happening?
A user with a 16-25 railcard wishes to make a return journey and despite having bought tickets before they’re suddenly several pounds more expensive.
Examples of this are Burton on Trent to Birmingham. Nottingham to Leicester.

Social media teams are straight into stock responses such as £12 minimum fares and advances are cheaper and neither of these are directly related.

It seems the issue comes from the ticket type. For some reason on SOME platforms (computer related not station related) if you select an open return then you are offered the CDR or SDR as relevant. But if you select a return and put in a time (same date of course) then you’re only offered the SVR or SOR as applicable.

This issue seems to crop up where an outward journey is in the ‘void’ between the off peak restriction finishing (say 0930) and the railcard minimum fare restriction finishing.

I can no longer generate one to give an example but other people still can. I shall try to obtain some to post here.

The issue is that regular users will spot this and complain if they notice it’s different or to those less familiar they’ll just complain that the fair has gone up 40% in a week.
Unfamiliar occasional users will just pay it and think nothing of it. There could be hundreds of these and thousands in unnecessary cost between them.

It seems despite talks and explanations nothing is being done about this. The cynic in me says that errors in favour of the railway are never really the highest priority but I appreciate that isn’t really true.
I tried to find an example earlier, but couldn't. It's not possible to provide any view without being able to replicate this.
 

Jonfun

Established Member
Joined
16 Mar 2007
Messages
1,254
Location
North West
Another issue used to crop up in some booking systems whereby if you applied a railcard to the booking, it will think that you must at all costs want that railcard to be applied - even if it meant imposing a minimum fare higher than the undiscounted one. Eg, SDS out, Advance return is cheaper than an SDR. But minimum fare applies to the SDS which normally would be, say, £8, and the system has been told you want to apply a railcard so gives you the railcard "discounted" minimum fare of £12 for the SDS. Having done a couple of sample journeys, however, they seem to now be returning the correct results. But it's always worth keeping an eye out for.
 

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,632
The problem of charging £12 when cheaper alternatives are available is still there with some retailers. There was someone speaking about it only a few days ago with either Southern it South Eastern.

As for this issue, I’ve created a demonstration video to show people what is going wrong. Apologies for the terrible audio quality. This is aimed at regular passengers more than potentially more knowledgeable people here but it shows this issue still exists.


The video (and audio) shows that journeys between NOT and LEI between 0900 and 1000 in this case only show the SVR by default which is £12.30
They should the minimum railcard fee being applied before this and the fare being £12 for the SDR. After 1000 the railcard discount is applied and the CDR is offered.
 

Paul Kelly

Verified Rep - BR Fares
Joined
16 Apr 2010
Messages
4,130
Location
Reading
How interesting! I can also reproduce it in the CrossCountry app, but not in Trainline's own app. Which suggests they're supplying their TOC customers with software that they haven't tested themselves! :)
 

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,632
Yes. Trainline app on iOS and Android doesn’t do it. Yet the others do. I haven’t tested the websites just the apps.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
3,725
The problem of charging £12 when cheaper alternatives are available is still there with some retailers. There was someone speaking about it only a few days ago with either Southern it South Eastern.

As for this issue, I’ve created a demonstration video to show people what is going wrong. Apologies for the terrible audio quality. This is aimed at regular passengers more than potentially more knowledgeable people here but it shows this issue still exists.


The video (and audio) shows that journeys between NOT and LEI between 0900 and 1000 in this case only show the SVR by default which is £12.30
They should the minimum railcard fee being applied before this and the fare being £12 for the SDR. After 1000 the railcard discount is applied and the CDR is offered.
Thanks robbeech - that’s a really useful video which demonstrates the issue. If only other posters would do the same! There’s another current thread in here where, after five posts, four of which are replies, the OP has explained that their issue is on “a Saturday”, without identifying which one. Then they wonder why nobody can provide a clear answer...
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
To add.

Scotrail app does the same, VTWC does the same.
These are all Trainline derivatives, so no surprise there! As far as I'm aware, the list of Trainline derivative apps is as follows:

Virgin Trains
East Midlands Trains
West Midlands Trains
ScotRail
Greater Anglia
Transport for Wales
CrossCountry
Northern
Grand Central
 

kieron

Established Member
Joined
22 Mar 2012
Messages
3,048
Location
Connah's Quay
The problem of charging £12 when cheaper alternatives are available is still there with some retailers. There was someone speaking about it only a few days ago with either Southern it South Eastern.

As for this issue, I’ve created a demonstration video to show people what is going wrong. Apologies for the terrible audio quality. This is aimed at regular passengers more than potentially more knowledgeable people here but it shows this issue still exists.
Thanks. That makes things clearer. The only thing I would have added would have been a reference to the version of the Northern app used (found at the bottom of the "More" tab).

With version 3.2.4, I find that the prices it gives seems to depend on the times you ask for, but doesn't depend on whether you select an open return or one with a specific return train.

If I select 8:01, the first page covers 7:56-8:36 at £12.00. Selecting "later trains" gives 9:12-10:35, with £12.30 fares before 10am.

if I select 8:02, the first page covers 8:05-9:12 at £12.00. Selecting "later trains" gives 9:36-10:45, with £12.30 fares before 10am.

If I select 8:11, the first page covers 8:09-9:36. 8:09-9:12 is £12.00, and 9:36 is £11.80. Selecting "later trains" gives 9:45-11:12, with £11.80 fares before 10am.

If I select 12:00 and then select "earlier trains" twice, it shows 9:12-10:45 with the correct fares. I haven't seen any incorrect fares if I do something like that, so it's a workaround of sorts for journeys before 10am.

I am starting to dislike the way trainline-based apps don't let you select times with the keyboard instead of scrolling through a long list every time, though. And how they change the time (but not the date) to the current time whenever you go back to change it, for that matter.
 

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,632
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top