ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

anamyd · 6 May 2019

anthony263 said:
Crew training on the 37s hasn't started yet due to union issues. Way its going I'm wondering are we going to see any extra trains or are we going to see rail replacement buses and coaches providing extra capacity

what union issues...?

RailUK Forums

Cardiff123 · 6 May 2019

anthony263 said:
Crew training on the 37s hasn't started yet due to union issues. Way its going I'm wondering are we going to see any extra trains or are we going to see rail replacement buses and coaches providing extra capacity

What could 'union issues' be? These are not new or untested trains on the Valleys!

anamyd · 6 May 2019

Chris217 said:
Any news on 144s heading south yet?

the Pacers would "now" be 142s, not 144s. And a few less of them, apparently 8 rather than 13 units. They'd transfer once they become available due to a sufficient number of 195s having entered service.

anamyd · 6 May 2019

Cardiff123 said:
Well to the layman when deadline after deadline after deadline is missed, and now it's been confirmed by Porterbrook that there are problems with the exhaust stacks and bogies that need rectifying before they can move on the mainline, it's difficult to be positive.
A project that was sold as a 'quick fix' to DMU shortages has been anything but.

bogies as well now, not just exhaust pipes...?

Honest Ross · 6 May 2019

TfW still telling twitter followers that plenty of new trains will be in service for the timetable change...

Ted172 · 6 May 2019

Honest Ross said:
TfW still telling twitter followers that plenty of new trains will be in service for the timetable change...

I find that ridiculous with the DMU shortage and also trains off for PRM Modifications as well. Also that a 769 hasn't even entered service or rolled a wheel on the mainline yet as well...

PHILIPE · 6 May 2019

Ted Fuller said:
I find that ridiculous with the DMU shortage and also trains off for PRM Modifications as well. Also that a 769 hasn't even entered service or rolled a wheel on the mainline yet as well...

That just leaves the 5 x 153s ex GWR and which are being worked on, hopefully

Baxenden Bank · 6 May 2019

Craigybagel says, in the class 230 conversion thread:

That said, there is a big shakeup of 153 diagrams taking place from the new timetable which has already been decided. Shrewsbury depot have already been told they won't need to sign them any more and I'd be surprised if Bletchley don't get told the same.

Does this mean 150's on the Heart of Wales line from the May timetable change?
In the short term (before arrival of class 170's) what else would be likely/cleared to operate on the route?

I have a couple of holidays booked in Shrewsbury over the summer to go walking from the Heart of Wales stations. A guaranteed two-car unit would give greater chance of a table seat with window combination and legroom.

PHILIPE · 6 May 2019

Baxenden Bank said:
Craigybagel says, in the class 230 conversion thread:

Does this mean 150's on the Heart of Wales line from the May timetable change?
In the short term (before arrival of class 170's) what else would be likely/cleared to operate on the route?

I have a couple of holidays booked in Shrewsbury over the summer to go walking from the Heart of Wales stations. A guaranteed two-car unit would give greater chance of a table seat with window combination and legroom.

No. Still 153s more so as TFW have just gained 5 more from GWR. The 153 shake up refers to West Midland Trains 153s

craigybagel · 6 May 2019

Baxenden Bank said:
Craigybagel says, in the class 230 conversion thread:

Does this mean 150's on the Heart of Wales line from the May timetable change?
In the short term (before arrival of class 170's) what else would be likely/cleared to operate on the route?

I have a couple of holidays booked in Shrewsbury over the summer to go walking from the Heart of Wales stations. A guaranteed two-car unit would give greater chance of a table seat with window combination and legroom.

PHILIPE said:
No. Still 153s more so as TFW have just gained 5 more from GWR. The 153 shake up refers to West Midland Trains 153s

Cheers PHILIPE, that is indeed what I meant. No plans for any major changes to 153 diagrams at TfW just yet to the best of my knowledge.

In terms of what's cleared for the route - 150s, 153s and 175s are all that can work the length of the line due to traincrew knowledge/route clearance issues. Pacers can work South of Llandrindod. 170s aren't expected till 2022 iirc so don't expect much of a change until then.

Outside of Saturdays during free travel season, and other special events, 153s cope with the passenger loads just fine.

PHILIPE · 6 May 2019

Honest Ross said:
TfW still telling twitter followers that plenty of new trains will be in service for the timetable change...

And more additional units will be coming up and until 2023 providing greater capacity. Jam tomorrow. What TFW don't say is that Pacers and the rest will be going so these units they keep promising are not, in a sense, additional but replacements

Cambrian359 · 6 May 2019

PHILIPE said:
And more additional units will be coming up and until 2023 providing greater capacity. Jam tomorrow. What TFW don't say is that Pacers and the rest will be going so these units they keep promising are not, in a sense, additional but replacements

Setting themselves up for a major backlash come January! Especially if the replacements arrive after the departed!

Baxenden Bank · 6 May 2019

PHILIPE said:
No. Still 153s more so as TFW have just gained 5 more from GWR. The 153 shake up refers to West Midland Trains 153s

craigybagel said:
Cheers PHILIPE, that is indeed what I meant. No plans for any major changes to 153 diagrams at TfW just yet to the best of my knowledge.

In terms of what's cleared for the route - 150s, 153s and 175s are all that can work the length of the line due to traincrew knowledge/route clearance issues. Pacers can work South of Llandrindod. 170s aren't expected till 2022 iirc so don't expect much of a change until then.

Outside of Saturdays during free travel season, and other special events, 153s cope with the passenger loads just fine.

Thanks both.

Indeed a 153 does seem sufficient capacity wise. Even a busy 1009 departure from Shrewsbury tends to thin out considerably by Craven Arms.

nicolaboo · 6 May 2019

I suppose sticking two 175s together today (6th) won't help with availability.175008 and 175010.
1508 Llandudno to Man Picc (below seen at Man Ox only 2 minutes late) and then the 1752 Man Picc to Holyhead.
I've never seen these run in multiple in all my YEAR of getting back into trains.

PHILIPE · 6 May 2019

neilboo said:
I suppose sticking two 175s together today (6th) won't help with availability.175008 and 175010.
1508 Llandudno to Man Picc (below seen at Man Ox only 2 minutes late) and then the 1752 Man Picc to Holyhead.
I've never seen these run in multiple in all my YEAR of getting back into trains.
View attachment 62568

These two are coupled together for a purpose. Maybe not as great today being a Bank Holiday but other days because the return from Manchester is a Peak Time service and the units are required to carry a large volume of passengers at this time

Plethora · 6 May 2019

I had two coupled together last Monday from Chester to Piccadilly - and that wasn't a bank holiday. The additional unit seems to have been spare and waiting to be coupled at Chester. The service was meeting the rush hour crush out of Manchester though, so it seems reasonable enough.

craigybagel · 6 May 2019

neilboo said:
I suppose sticking two 175s together today (6th) won't help with availability.175008 and 175010.
1508 Llandudno to Man Picc (below seen at Man Ox only 2 minutes late) and then the 1752 Man Picc to Holyhead.
I've never seen these run in multiple in all my YEAR of getting back into trains.
View attachment 62568

It's booked to be a 4 car - but for the last few months it was running as a 3 car due to unit shortages. It's only in the last few weeks it's been restored to 4 cars.

anamyd · 7 May 2019

craigybagel said:
170s aren't expected till 2022 iirc so don't expect much of a change until then.

It was my understanding the 170/2s will become available to TfW on 1/10/19 but will change their main routes/area around 2022/23...?

krus_aragon · 7 May 2019

anamyd said:
It was my understanding the 170/2s will become available to TfW on 1/10/19 but will change their main routes/area around 2022/23...?

Yes. I think craigybagel was answering from the Shrewsbury depot's point of view.

anamyd · 7 May 2019

krus_aragon said:
Yes. I think craigybagel was answering from the Shrewsbury depot's point of view.

ah OK

craigybagel · 7 May 2019

anamyd said:
It was my understanding the 170/2s will become available to TfW on 1/10/19 but will change their main routes/area around 2022/23...?

krus_aragon said:
Yes. I think craigybagel was answering from the Shrewsbury depot's point of view.

Correct on both counts. 170s are meant to arrive in 2019 and go on Cardiff - Cheltenham/Ebbw Vale/Maesteg. Only when the new Stadler DMUs arrive in 2022 for those routes will the 170s get released for HOWL/ Crewe - Shrewsbury. I'm not sure where West Wales fits into the equation though; whether they'll get some as the same time as Cardiff or if it has to wait till 2022 as well.

Of course that's the original plan. As I've said before, we've already seen that plans have had to change so I wouldn't take any of it as gospel. But with the current shortages across the franchise, I doubt anyone is going to see the HOWL as particularly high priority for new stock, especially 100mph air conditioned medium distance trains like the 170s, any time soon.

ancientsolar · 7 May 2019

from December 2019, Cardiff - Bridgend is supposed to have a full 4 services an hour on the mainline

currently to my knowledge - 1x Swanline every 2 hours.
1x Maesteg
1x Manchester-Carmarthen/Milford Haven
1x London-Swansea

meaning there is an additional 1 every 2 hours to fulfill.

I suspect this will mean some changes of current service order.. or the Ebbw-vales - Cardiff.. extending to Bridgend and Swansea ,

ancientsolar · 7 May 2019

Also from December,loco hauled 3 trains per day from Cardiff- holyhead.. will free up 175s .. I wouldn't be surprised if they are moved to the Chester-liverpool route, to free up the 150s for the valleys.. otherwise.. more than likely, they too will be short stocked.. since the pacers will be going.

I guess this is a huge shift of services.. all to accommodate the pacer removal (sounds like a nasty tooth infection.)

anthony263 · 7 May 2019

ancientsolar said:
from December 2019, Cardiff - Bridgend is supposed to have a full 4 services an hour on the mainline

currently to my knowledge - 1x Swanline every 2 hours.
1x Maesteg
1x Manchester-Carmarthen/Milford Haven
1x London-Swansea

meaning there is an additional 1 every 2 hours to fulfill.

I suspect this will mean some changes of current service order.. or the Ebbw-vales - Cardiff.. extending to Bridgend and Swansea ,

Think swanline is to go hourly and there is eventual plans to run maesteg services every 30 minutes

anthony263 · 7 May 2019

They would need an additional 2 units to run swanline hourly though

Envoy · 7 May 2019

I see that Trans Pennine Express are getting new trains. So, can’t Transport for Wales get hold of some of their outgoing Class 185’s to see them through the rolling stock crises?

Ted172 · 7 May 2019

Envoy said:
I see that Trans Pennine Express are getting new trains. So, can’t Transport for Wales get hold of some of their outgoing Class 185’s to see them through the rolling stock crises?

I would assume this wouldn't be able to happen because of clearance issues and also staff training and leasing.

paddyb6 · 7 May 2019

The 22(?) soon to be off-lease 185s are rumoured to be heading to East Midlands Railway apparently...
They'll be off-lease by the end of the year apparently!

craigybagel · 7 May 2019

Envoy said:
I see that Trans Pennine Express are getting new trains. So, can’t Transport for Wales get hold of some of their outgoing Class 185’s to see them through the rolling stock crises?

Ted Fuller said:
I would assume this wouldn't be able to happen because of clearance issues and also staff training and leasing.

It could be done, but it would require probably more time then would make it worthwhile.

If the rumours are true however, an option is being looked at that wouldn't require so much efforts. Watch this space.

43055 · 7 May 2019

neilboo said:
I suppose sticking two 175s together today (6th) won't help with availability.175008 and 175010.
1508 Llandudno to Man Picc (below seen at Man Ox only 2 minutes late) and then the 1752 Man Picc to Holyhead.
I've never seen these run in multiple in all my YEAR of getting back into trains.
View attachment 62568

I had a 5 car 175 from Chester to Cardiff once after getting on a 3 car at Llandudno Junction. It was around half 9 or half 10 from Chester.

ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

On Moderation

RailUK Forums

Established Member

On Moderation

On Moderation

Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

On Moderation

Established Member

On Moderation

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member