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DB discontinue fares to London from 10/11/2019

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M28361M

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Man in Seat 61 just tweeted:

MAJOR SETBACK for train travel to Europe. Eurostar changes its systems, no more DB through fares London-Germany. This is a step backwards, more fragmentation, when operators need to work more TOGETHER.

Citing this blog post (in German) which seems to blame a systems change at Eurostar from 10th November. No Flexpreis (flexible fare) or Sparpreis (advance, booked train only) will be available between London and stations on the DB network from that date. Eurostar and DB are working on a "customer-friendly" solution for the future but no details yet on what that might be.

A big disappointment if true - the connection time at Brussels is usually quite tight and I wouldn't feel too comfortable booking split tickets for that connection. Does the Railteam "next available train" policy apply if it is a split ticket?
 
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Goldfish62

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This depressing news has also come my way. Completely the wrong decision, but then Eurostar has a monopoly on the route and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
 

blackfive460

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No real surprise that (I suspect) Eurostar have put the kibosh on DB's London Spezial when it was often cheaper to book one of these than pay the standard E* fare to Brussels. Still a damn shame though.
 

Goldfish62

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No real surprise that (I suspect) Eurostar have put the kibosh on DB's London Spezial when it was often cheaper to book one of these than pay the standard E* fare to Brussels. Still a damn shame though.
Yes, it's all rather convenient for Eurostar, eliminating their one bit of rail competition.
 

Bletchleyite

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A big disappointment if true - the connection time at Brussels is usually quite tight and I wouldn't feel too comfortable booking split tickets for that connection. Does the Railteam "next available train" policy apply if it is a split ticket?

It has to because most European high speed trains now do not offer any kind of through ticketing.
 

Groningen

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Instead of friends these 2 companies become enemies. A real incentive to promote railtravel from and to the UK in the future! Hail to the marketing departement!
 

Bletchleyite

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That's not true.

The Romance method of operation is "global fares" i.e. ticket and reservation all in one for the specific train, one coupon per train. That's a large chunk of European high speed operations.

OK, DB doesn't do that, but Germany is one country. Austria and Switzerland don't really have anything that would be considered properly high-speed, they are conventional operations. Railjet, for instance, is conventional 200km/h LHCS.
 

BRX

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What's the matter with Eurostar? Why does the one international rail operator we have, do stuff that makes using their services even less attractive compared to getting the plane? It's completely hopeless.
 

Giugiaro

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Shouldn't there be more operators doing international connections to London? I know DB dropped the project for an ICE connection to London, but maybe the European liberalization of rail services will bring the project back on the table?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The Romance method of operation is "global fares" i.e. ticket and reservation all in one for the specific train, one coupon per train. That's a large chunk of European high speed operations.
OK, DB doesn't do that, but Germany is one country. Austria and Switzerland don't really have anything that would be considered properly high-speed, they are conventional operations. Railjet, for instance, is conventional 200km/h LHCS.

Railjets, and the Taurus locos that operate them, are good for the 230km/h of the Westbahn, which is most of the 200+km route between Wels and Vienna.
Which is much the same as several upgraded DB lines (eg Hamburg/Hanover-Berlin).
DB ICE's use the same Westbahn route.

You can get DB fares into neighbouring countries using connecting trains, similarly with OBB, SBB, ČD etc without compulsory reservation.
 

Peter Mugridge

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It appears it's not DB's fault; they want to continue to be able to sell the through tickets but a new computer system at Eurostar has stopped it. Screenshot off Twitter below.

Due to a system changeover at Eurostar, from the 9th November, no direct tickets to London will be available. We work together with Eurostar for a solution.

upload_2019-5-6_23-57-57.png
 

Bungle965

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Gah, pure and utter lunacy it's a simple as that.
If anything we should be encouraging more people to use these tickets as a alternative to flying instead of abolishing them completely.

What's to reckon this solution is something interior to what is already in place, jacked up prices etc. (Or am I being too cynical??)
Sam
 

duesselmartin

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B-Europe offers two coupons in one booking contract. I use that site for Duisburg to London journeys as gives both ice and Thalys as an option.
I could imagine tgat a similar solution is sought.
It means one contract so more passenger rights
 

tasky

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It has to because most European high speed trains now do not offer any kind of through ticketing.
I booked Brussels to Marseilles the other day and was amazed that there isn't even proper through ticketing between SNCF's TGVs and Thalys - despite them being practically the same company.

I bought tickets for two people on SNCF Oui and ended up being given two app tickets for the TGV leg of the journeys and *four* separate emails from Thalys containing different tickets for each person-leg of the connection from Brussels to Paris! And that doesn't include the tickets I'll need for the RER of course.
 

BRX

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It's so frustrating to see things going backwards ticketing wise. After journey times, the main thing that stops people doing long distance rail is the difficulty buying an end to end ticket.
 

nw1

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Not good. I used London-Spezial several times (in 2011, 2012 and 2014) to reach Bavaria and Austria for a good price.

This will presumably further harm DB as it may well now be both more time-effective and cost-effective to travel to southern Germany and Austria, at least, via Paris? I always did Munich and Austrian destinations (Innsbruck, Salzburg, and on one epic occasion, Vienna) via Brussels due to the London-Spezial, but after this change the advantage of going via Brussels might not be so clear-cut.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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is this a case for the MMC?

That only applies to the UK (although they did get involved in the Eurotunnel ferry competition dispute, although that did not end well).
It should however interest the EU competition commissioner (although the UK leaving won't help).
In one way, competition works against cooperation and through ticketing.
But it's baffling why Eurostar should want to put barriers up to growing its overall business which is effectively a monopoly at the moment.
DB could, of course, set up its own cross-channel services and control its fares that way, but it seems to have decided against that plan.
 

BRX

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What's the latest on the issue of missed connections, at least as far as the Railteam network is concerned? I can't find anything on their website that explains whether there's any protection offered.
 

ainsworth74

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Discussion about what counts as high speed is off topic. Please use a new thread if anyone wishes to argue about this. Otherwise please keep the discussion to this awful news regarding ticketing.
 

Mag_seven

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If anything we should be encouraging more people to use these tickets as a alternative to flying instead of abolishing them completely.

100% agreed - what is the point in governments declaring "Climate Emergencies" and then allowing facilities that encourage people to take the train rather than to fly to go ahead. Could the governments involved intervene here?
 

Bletchleyite

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100% agreed - what is the point in governments declaring "Climate Emergencies" and then allowing facilities that encourage people to take the train rather than to fly to go ahead. Could the governments involved intervene here?

Part of the issue would be solved (and a wider one too) by legally mandating that a missed train connection requires accommodation on the next available service regardless of whether it's on the same ticket or even company or not. Ideally also include in that buses, trams and metro services to/from stations too.

UK TOCs are required to behave in this manner (and indeed have obligations well in excess of that such as hotel accommodation or road transport in the event of stranding), so why not general European legislation?

The issue of whether a through booking should be cheaper is a slightly separate one.
 
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tasky

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Part of the issue would be solved (and a wider one too) by legally mandating that a missed train connection requires accommodation on the next available service regardless of whether it's on the same ticket or even company or not. Ideally also include in that buses, trams and metro services to/from stations too.

UK TOCs are required to behave in this manner (and indeed have obligations well in excess of that such as hotel accommodation or road transport in the event of stranding), so why not general European legislation?

The issue of whether a through booking should be cheaper is a slightly separate one.

In reality as members of Railteam both DB's ICE services and Eurostars will be covered by the HOTNAT agreement, so this is still actually the case, I think – even with separate tickets (whereas the legally binding CIV protections only apply if it's a journey on a single ticket).

However it will bring uncertainty for passengers relying on DB's IC or EC services (for instance, a passenger to Dresden or Salzburg) - which aren't covered as they aren't high-speed. (DB may still honour this, but they're not bound to it).

There may be a few other more technical loopholes when comparing Railteam HOTNAT to CIV protection - I think there might be something to do with hotel accommodation? Not certain, though.

And of course, if people don't know about the missed connection protection it will still put them off.
 
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