oliverpckehoe
Member
What about ECML sections?
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
CrossCountry voyagers due for a referb?
- Thread starter Dan15812
- Start date
- Status
What about ECML sections?
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There's not as obvious a short electrified section of very high demand up there as there is Manchester-Brum.
I don't think Bletchleyite was advocating the use of an EMU fleet between York and Glasgow, only on WCML sections.
Unless, dare I say it, they split XC diagrams at York and used 225s north of York. Radical I know.
AT300 - INTERCITY HIGH SPEED
http://www.hitachirail-eu.com/products/our-trains/at300-intercity-high-speed
110mph on diesel " ？？？
Do everyone make the wrong recognition in this forum?
Not a performance but at a speed limit?
433N
Guest
- Joined
- 20 Jun 2017
- Messages
- 752
Personally, it would be very convenient to use a train that runs from Newcastle to Guildford.
Would I ever do it on a Voyager ? Nah ... particularly for the money they charge.
I just don't think they are suitable traction for long distance services ; 2 or 3 hours is the max that I'd spend on one, although the perverse side of my nature is tempted to do the Aberdeen - Penzance run. I'm thinking that a refurb would probably be just putting lipstick on a pig without a complete change in paradigm (which would be pricey).
Would I ever do it on a Voyager ? Nah ... particularly for the money they charge.
I just don't think they are suitable traction for long distance services ; 2 or 3 hours is the max that I'd spend on one, although the perverse side of my nature is tempted to do the Aberdeen - Penzance run. I'm thinking that a refurb would probably be just putting lipstick on a pig without a complete change in paradigm (which would be pricey).
py_megapixel
Established Member
Oh come on, the North is still stuck with Pacers and you think that the Voyagers need to be scrapped? A refurbishment, fine, but getting rid of them after that small amount of time?
I would appreciate an alternative to the large toilets on Voyagers, not least because I prefer a manual door and find the automatic ones confusing, especially when they talk to you! However, there are frequently queues for the toilets, usually because there is only one, with the remaining ones not working, so I disagree that any should be removed - maybe just swap one of the PRM ones for a smaller one.
I also think that if Voyagers were to be operated in longer formations, the quiet zone should be reinstated. I am fed up of having to listen to the awful soundtrack of some childrens' mobile game above the noise of the engine when I am hoping to have a relaxing journey. I have taken to making more changes on some of my regular journeys to avoid Voyagers when they are likely to be crowded - I have no problem with them when they are empty!
supervc-10
Member
- Joined
- 4 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 702
Replacing a disabled toilet for a regular one in the middle of the Voyagers and adding a few seats would be a good idea, but would it be financially worth it? It would add what, 4 seats? Of course if the train needs a 100% refit and replacement of the interior fittings then maybe, but if it's more of a quick refresh then of course that's a different matter.
I'm still of the thinking that in an ideal world, the 222s would be cascaded from EMT when they're replaced by bi-modes, enabling doubled up Voyagers or Meridians on more routes. Although in a truly ideal world, replacing the whole lot with 125mph EMUs and electrifying everything would be better still!
I'm still of the thinking that in an ideal world, the 222s would be cascaded from EMT when they're replaced by bi-modes, enabling doubled up Voyagers or Meridians on more routes. Although in a truly ideal world, replacing the whole lot with 125mph EMUs and electrifying everything would be better still!
Jozhua
Established Member
- Joined
- 6 Jan 2019
- Messages
- 1,856
Travelling from Manchester to Bristol in a couple of weeks and really didn't want to pay a premium for a trip on an overcrowded voyager. Booked in advance and travelling via Newport on a TFW 175, wish me luck! 
The fact its so hard to find a reasonably priced advance fare shows how little extra capacity is available on XC routes!
The fact its so hard to find a reasonably priced advance fare shows how little extra capacity is available on XC routes!
supervc-10
Member
- Joined
- 4 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 702
I don't think I've ever done that route and not been on a fairly full train. I used to take it very frequently- now I drive. A return ticket is £64.10 to Warminster from Manchester. That is far more than it costs me to drive. I can do there and back on one tank and that's about £50 (I drive a little Seat Ibiza). The only reason for me to take the train down would be if I sold my car!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Swapping a PRM bog for two regular bogs would make sense.
This is not a quiet zone issue, it is a breach of Byelaws to do this to someone's annoyance (which it will be) in any coach. We need some prosecutions on this to make the point.
Jonfun
Established Member
Wolverhampton - Stafford is 125.
supervc-10
Member
- Joined
- 4 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 702
I thought the whole of the west coast was only 125 if tilting was enabled?
a_c_skinner
Established Member
- Joined
- 21 Jun 2013
- Messages
- 1,585
That is a really interesting question. Yes, I think 110 is the maximum without tilt. However tilt was ordered for 140 mph. I think the East Coast tolerates slightly more lateral forces than the West. 225 sets have been suggested for some WCML services and it has been suggested that some sections could have their non-tilt maximum speed reassessed. I strongly (but ignorantly!) suspect the gain from tilt after 140 mph was abandoned isn't great.
sprinterguy
Established Member
Not entirely: The Wolverhampton - Stafford route isn't sinuous, and a 125mph limit applies to all stock to which an MU speed limit is applicable. There's also a short 115mph MU speed limit (Not 125, but greater than the 110mph widely considered the maximum for non-tilt stock) north of Congleton viaduct to south of Macclesfield.
The Great Western IETs are tied into a 27.5 year contract with Hitachi, they're not going anywhere. And I think that should read "if" electrification finishes, not "when"
: Plus I wouldn't expect the Great Western fleet consist to change: Bi-mode units are more flexible to operate during service disruption or planned engineering work.Plus Crosscountry would be better off with class 802 derivatives (larger fuel tanks), rather than 800s (GWRs' class 802s will continue to be utilised on largely unelectrified routes). It would be better for Crosscountry to order new if they were going down the IET route.
supervc-10
Member
- Joined
- 4 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 702
The more you know! Thanks
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If it was easy enough to do so why not? We need to reduce diesel running generally.
supervc-10
Member
- Joined
- 4 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 702
I think in an ideal world yes- although would there be enough space under the floor for the required electronics and the diesel engines?
No - That is the performance on electric. There are hundreds of comments on the GW IEP thread on covering performance on Diesel.
The original IEP spec specified only 100mph running requirement for diesel so Hitachi went for setting the max engine power at only 390kW rather than 700kW to reduce engine wear, increase maintenance intervals and reduce the size of fuel tank required and meet the 100mph performance requirement.
Later units were specified with bigger tanks and different engine software to meet higher running speed and acceleration requirements e.g. 802s for first group. Some of the original units have also had various modifications.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Third rail doesn't require a lot of gubbins.
Trainfan061193
Member
- Joined
- 29 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 435
Yes a small selection of these services are run by HSTs as well. They are in general in much better condition than the Voyagers which are quite dim on the inside plus they’re looking rather tatty now and a lot of the seats don’t line up with the windows. I personally don’t have anything against Voyagers but they could do with strengthening and a refurb at least.
Last edited:
Personally, I'd rather sit on a Pacer but unfortunatley Pacers don't run in Scotland, Voyagers however do.
oliverpckehoe
Member
Pacers are barely comfortable enough for Paignton-Exmouth, let alone Aberdeen-Penzance.
I agree with some of the posts, went to west country on one last year on a 220 and it showing it age abit, carpets really grubby and worn seats that have lost the cushioning and had gone hard, outside destination indicators not working. I have to say as a minority i do enjoy the voyagers, reliable units never had a problem travelling on one. Ive sat in vestables doing birmingham-bristol and back loads of times and not been fussed except on cheltenham festival time. I like listening to the engines humming away. their worked hard very hard on the routes they have do and could do with some tlc. Virgins are definately more looked after compared to XC.
They should have been like what they meridans are now. Too short to deal with the passenger loadings they have to do. Certainly more doubling up would be handy
They should have been like what they meridans are now. Too short to deal with the passenger loadings they have to do. Certainly more doubling up would be handy
Different people have different tastes, I hate Voyagers with an absolute passion, I've only ever travelled on Pacers once or twice and found them more appealing, surely that should say something.
I also find 158s to be horrendous yet 156s are one of my favorite DMUs to travel on.
oliverpckehoe
Member
156s are nice. Not had much experience on a 158 but the 159s are well kept and comfortable. If only they could do 125.......
It's a distinct possibility,(not GWR ones though) it was on the news last week or so about the Hitachi plant at Newton Aycliffe having no more work from early next year and it's looking like the XC franchise will be another direct award, so it'll be the DfT making the decisions about rolling stock and politically the Hitachi factory closing wouldn't look good.
I like Voyagers. Comfortable for long journeys, reliable and relatively fast.
Yes the could do with a refurb, but otherwise can't fault them.
The only issue I have is that there aren't enough of them - a symptom the typical British management ethos that any whiff of an empty seat equals over-capacity, rather than an opportunity.
Yes the could do with a refurb, but otherwise can't fault them.
The only issue I have is that there aren't enough of them - a symptom the typical British management ethos that any whiff of an empty seat equals over-capacity, rather than an opportunity.
- Status