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What preserved railway extension would you most like to see?

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BigCj34

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Based entirely on the premise "someone else will pay"

Similar views have been put forward since the start of railway preservation. They were hopelessly romantic then as they remain. A fair deal of money was lost in finding out just why the railways closed in the first place which was not due to any wickedness on the part of "them".

Are there any instances where a heritage line could work operate a commuter service without needing any external funding? Maybe selling season tickets? Or are they too unreliable for those who need to get from A to B?
 
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Are there any instances where a heritage line could work operate a commuter service without needing any external funding? Maybe selling season tickets? Or are they too unreliable for those who need to get from A to B?
"Heritage" railways offer a leisure time entertainment at times of the year when there are substantial numbers of people around. Thus they can arrange for maintenance on stock and, in particular, track to be carried out when services are not running. They compete with theme parks, country houses, ornamental gardens and the like.

"Public transport" railways are not an entertainment as such and must operate 52 weeks a year or else provide alternatives. They cannot charge fares as high as those levied by the heritage lines. They compete with cars, buses and bicycles.
 

daodao

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"Heritage" railways offer a leisure time entertainment at times of the year when there are substantial numbers of people around. Thus they can arrange for maintenance on stock and, in particular, track to be carried out when services are not running. They compete with theme parks, country houses, ornamental gardens and the like.

"Public transport" railways are not an entertainment as such and must operate 52 weeks a year or else provide alternatives. They cannot charge fares as high as those levied by the heritage lines. They compete with cars, buses and bicycles.

What I was essentially proposing was commandeering of a preserved line for public transport use, in a few instances where there may now be a rationale for doing so that didn't exist at the time the line was closed for regular use. There have been quite a number of lines re-opened for passenger use in the last 30-40 years, and "heritage" lines should not be excluded from similar consideration. Vintage stock could still be run by the "heritage" railway organisation at suitable times provided that this did not interfere with regular public transport service. That is what Blackpool Transport do, except that they run both the standard and the heritage trams; a premium is charged for travel on the vintage trams.
 

bluegoblin7

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What I was essentially proposing was commandeering of a preserved line for public transport use, in a few instances where there may now be a rationale for doing so that didn't exist at the time the line was closed for regular use. There have been quite a number of lines re-opened for passenger use in the last 30-40 years, and "heritage" lines should not be excluded from similar consideration. Vintage stock could still be run by the "heritage" railway organisation at suitable times provided that this did not interfere with regular public transport service. That is what Blackpool Transport do, except that they run both the standard and the heritage trams; a premium is charged for travel on the vintage trams.

The Blackpool Heritage operation really isn't comparable with a heritage railway for any number of reasons. It also remains to be seen how financially viable the heritage operation is in the long-term, not to mention what may happen if (when) Rigby Road depot needs serious work.
 
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What I was essentially proposing was commandeering of a preserved line for public transport use, in a few instances where there may now be a rationale for doing so that didn't exist at the time the line was closed for regular use. There have been quite a number of lines re-opened for passenger use in the last 30-40 years, and "heritage" lines should not be excluded from similar consideration. Vintage stock could still be run by the "heritage" railway organisation at suitable times provided that this did not interfere with regular public transport service. That is what Blackpool Transport do, except that they run both the standard and the heritage trams; a premium is charged for travel on the vintage trams.
What exactly is your first hand knowledge and practical experience of operating either "heritage" or "public service" railway operations?
 

61653 HTAFC

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What exactly is your first hand knowledge and practical experience of operating either "heritage" or "public service" railway operations?
What is yours? You seem determined to pour cold water on any suggestions despite those making the suggestions being (overly, IMO) very selective in what they suggest and bending over backwards to accommodate your skepticism.

As for your post earlier about "someone else will pay", isn't that what government is for? If Somerset County Council came up with a scheme for a Minehead to Taunton service which had the support of the WSR, of NR, and of GWR, it would still need a subsidy... but when considering the other benefits (reduced congestion, reduced casualties on the A358) that might be considered worth it.

I'm all for healthy skepticism but these fora already have plenty of people who get into the realm of "real-world willy-waving" at every opportunity.
 
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What is yours? You seem determined to pour cold water on any suggestions despite those making the suggestions being (overly, IMO) very selective in what they suggest and bending over backwards to accommodate your skepticism.

As for your post earlier about "someone else will pay", isn't that what government is for? If Somerset County Council came up with a scheme for a Minehead to Taunton service which had the support of the WSR, of NR, and of GWR, it would still need a subsidy... but when considering the other benefits (reduced congestion, reduced casualties on the A358) that might be considered worth it.

I'm all for healthy skepticism but these fora already have plenty of people who get into the realm of "real-world willy-waving" at every opportunity.
Subsidy for the "bright" ideas of gricers met from taxation is paid for by all of us. If these ideas prove not so bright after all then it is another way of wasting funds and, frankly, so many of these suggestions come in the category of "wouldn't it be nice" wishful thinking. There has been much publicity recently of a particular line which found itself in in desperate financial difficulty. Less well known is that other heritage railways had a poor, that is loss making, year.

This is from the point of view of someone who has been actively involved in railway preservation all his adult life.
 

Malcmal

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This is from the point of view of someone who has been actively involved in railway preservation all his adult life.

That must have been a real "treat" for the people in those various groups you have interacted with :lol::lol::lol:

Seriously!! This is just a fantasy thread - not the AGM of some preserved railway where real financial decisions are being made. Do you like to hang around schools with a megaphone telling all the kids that Santa Clause isn't real and the Tooth Fairy is just their own parents??

If this thread annoys you so much then go and read a different one. Honestly every time I see your name on a thread it can almost be guaranteed you are pouring cold water everywhere like some kind of "happiness police"!!
 
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That must have been a real "treat" for the people in those various groups you have interacted with :lol::lol::lol:

Seriously!! This is just a fantasy thread - not the AGM of some preserved railway where real financial decisions are being made. Do you like to hang around schools with a megaphone telling all the kids that Santa Clause isn't real and the Tooth Fairy is just their own parents??

If this thread annoys you so much then go and read a different one. Honestly every time I see your name on a thread it can almost be guaranteed you are pouring cold water everywhere like some kind of "happiness police"!!
People put in a lot of work and incur much expense and to see this wasted for want of a bit of thought would be tragic.
 

Malcmal

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People put in a lot of work and incur much expense and to see this wasted for want of a bit of thought would be tragic.

What you just wrote is 100% correct - in the right context. This is a fantasy thread and NOT some decision making committee about to blow the budget on some crazy pipe dream! Nothing here is about to accidentally become actual policy for some preserved railway so just let people have exercise their imaginations. It's a bit like going to some Game Of Thrones fan forum and posting all the time "It's not real, it's just made up.".

I add this picture in the hope it makes my point clearer:

 

Calthrop

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Do you like to hang around schools with a megaphone telling all the kids that Santa Clause isn't real... ??

My bolding above -- sorry, "topic drift" irrelevant to the thread, but a big peeve of mine: Father Christmas = Santa Claus, not "Clause". The jolly ho-ho-ho bloke (originally, very many centuries ago, Saint Nicholas from the Near East) -- the "SC" variation of his English-language form, derives from the Dutch (he has long been a popular Yuletide figure in the Netherlands) "Sinterklaas" ("Saint" [perhaps a bit of Spanish in the mix]; plus "Klaas" / "Claus", Dutch diminutive of Nicholas). Meaning of "clause": a single passage of discourse or writing; or, a particular and separate article, stipulation, or proviso, in any formal or legal document.
 
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Malcmal

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My bolding above -- sorry, "topic drift" irrelevant to the thread, but a big peeve of mine: Father Christmas = Santa Claus, not "Clause". The jolly ho-ho-ho bloke (originally, very many centuries ago, Saint Nicholas from the Near East) -- the "SC" variation of his English-language form, derives from the Dutch (he has long been a popular Yuletide figure in the Netherlands) "Sinterklaas" ("Saint"; plus "Klaas" / "Claus", Dutch diminutive of Nicholas). Meaning of "clause": a single passage of discourse or writing; or, a particular and separate article, stipulation, or proviso, in any formal or legal document.

Ha ha!!! You should complain to Microsoft as their spell correct was quite happy to accept Clause so I didn't question it. I prefer to call him Joulupukki in honour of where he allegedly lives nowadays :lol:

Anyway - every day is a school day and I take your correction on board ;)
 

Calthrop

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I admit -- am an annoying pedantic pain -- try not to do too much of said stuff; it doesn't endear one to people. I like your suggestion: IMO anything Finnish, is a good thing.
 

Malcmal

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I admit -- am an annoying pedantic pain -- try not to do too much of said stuff; it doesn't endear one to people. I like your suggestion: IMO anything Finnish, is a good thing.

Vaimoni on Suomesta - se on miksi mä kutsun häntä Joulupukiksi!

Now THAT is what you call going off topic <D<D
 

The Ham

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Subsidy for the "bright" ideas of gricers met from taxation is paid for by all of us. If these ideas prove not so bright after all then it is another way of wasting funds and, frankly, so many of these suggestions come in the category of "wouldn't it be nice" wishful thinking. There has been much publicity recently of a particular line which found itself in in desperate financial difficulty. Less well known is that other heritage railways had a poor, that is loss making, year.

This is from the point of view of someone who has been actively involved in railway preservation all his adult life.

I would also point out my posts above where a report was undertaken by someone who makes a living out of rail projects showing the level of subsidy required we such that, by using other information, it was cheaper to run free buses than provide even a basic level of commuter services.

Given the H&S his which you needed to jump through along with stock and staff costs the extra to run it all day was fairly small, but with a significant advantage in terms of those who could use it (college students, shoppers, those going for hospital appointments, etc.).
 

John Luxton

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Douglas to Peel/Ramsey
I was always surprised when the IOM Railway was rationalised that the Peel Line was not the one that was retained. Unlike Douglas - Castletown - Port Erin the Peel line was much shorter and was probably the more viable - lower running costs. Can anyone shed any light why that Line was not retained? Reopening it with omo railcars might just help reduce traffic congestion in Douglas at peak times.
 

UP13

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I vote for the Hampton and Kempton.

IMO railways that are already 30 mins or longer probably shouldn't expand as it'll be expensive to maintain and most non-enthusiasts probably aren't interested in doing much more than 30 mins.

Regarding mainline connections - how necessary are they? I find travelling by car to be quicker, cheaper and much easier with kids in tow. The only times I've had to use them have been for Railtours to the Bluebell and Dartmouth railways and when been drinking on the excellent Watercress RAT.
 

Parham Wood

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East Somerset Railway Mendip Vale to Shepton Mallet (Canard's Grave).

This is a feasible short extension which would bring the ESR to the outskirts of Shepton Mallet. The old route is no longer tenable. It would be close enough to service the larges Shepton Mallet showground so opening up charter traffic opportunities from off the railway. (I believe onward extension from this point is possible to link up to the old line towards Wells but of course way out in the future.) Even without the charters being closer to Shepton Mallet and the A37 should raise the ESR's profile and bring more customers. The short additional journey time would not impact on timetables or crewing. OK this is not going to be the top of the list for most people but it would be of great benefit to this small friendly railway.
 
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Douglas to Peel would be a useful reopening for heritage and some commuter trains. If only the track hadn't been lifted.
 

A0wen

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Douglas to Peel would be a useful reopening for heritage and some commuter trains. If only the track hadn't been lifted.

The track bed is still clear - the reality is the IoMSR isn't really a viable option for commuting. It's a leisure railway first and foremost, by comparison the IoM has an excellent bus network. And Peel is a very small place (5,000 people) - there really isn't the justification to reopen the line as anything other than a heritage operation.
 

option

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Aln Valley

3miles long
At £.5m/mile for track, thats £1.5m. Same again for structures, & again for station works at each end.
Could probably do the whole for thing for around £5m.

It would only be about 10-15minutes each way, but i'm sure plenty of people would pay for a better journey between Alnwick & the mainline.
 

option

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GWSR
Honeybourne & Cheltenham

Broadway - Honeybourne is a flat straight line, with no obvious stations to re-open, so you can get a good 4mile run at 25mph. Would be about a 20min journey each way.
Link with the Cotswold Line services, which are only hourly so simple to timetable around. Currently a 20min gap between services each way, so time to do a loco run-around & water.
Potential for car parking, & additional race day services. Potential NR connection for services & equipment.

Cheltenham gives you a station right next to an NR mainline station, & additional non-car customers.
Potential to run a shuttle service to Cheltenham Racecourse on race days.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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Aln Valley

3miles long
At £.5m/mile for track, thats £1.5m. Same again for structures, & again for station works at each end.
Could probably do the whole for thing for around £5m.

It would only be about 10-15minutes each way, but i'm sure plenty of people would pay for a better journey between Alnwick & the mainline.


I think they are trying to do that.
 

4141

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Honeybourne & Cheltenham.
Cheltenham gives you a station right next to an NR mainline station, & additional non-car customers.
Potential to run a shuttle service to Cheltenham Racecourse on race days.
Never going to happen, sadly - apart from the bridge near Waitrose and the new housing estate on the site of Malvern Road shed, the station car park at Cheltenham has now been extended over the site of the Honeybourne tracks. Can't see them ever giving that revenue stream up for a preserved line...
 
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