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Stagecoach disqualified from three franchise competitions

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tbtc

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I'm actually surprised they don't throw it into Megabus to give the new rail operations a proper run for their money.

Hmm, without any rail operations (and no need to keep the industry "sweet"), Stagecoach could decide to compete more with their coach network - especially when they have knowledge of how "elastic" the price/demand is on key intercity flows - be wary of a Stagecoach scorned?
 
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JonathanH

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Hmm, without any rail operations (and no need to keep the industry "sweet"), Stagecoach could decide to compete more with their coach network - especially when they have knowledge of how "elastic" the price/demand is on key intercity flows - be wary of a Stagecoach scorned?

There are core routes on which coaches work and others where they don't. Megabus has been tried on some of these and retreated because they are loss making. I don't see a significant increase in the Megabus network in the offing no matter how much Stagecoach are scorned.
 

Wolfie

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I see DfT's litigation woes continue. Now being sued by P&O as a result of the terms they settled the Eurotunnel action under. Stagecoach would be mad not to have a go at these serial failures.
 

HH

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If Abellio didn't sign (which they may decide not to), it would have to go to back to the beginning and start again. However with the Williams Review in full force that could be some time but in any event either an extension with Stagecoach - the current operator would have to be agreed or Directly Operated Railways would have to take over.
I imagine they’ve already signed. The bigger issue is around SE, where rumours have suggested they are leading bidder. Will NS still want to take on another pension risk, and fund another parent bond, in the current circumstances? Maybe Govia will end up being the only option.
 

43096

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I imagine they’ve already signed. The bigger issue is around SE, where rumours have suggested they are leading bidder. Will NS still want to take on another pension risk, and fund another parent bond, in the current circumstances? Maybe Govia will end up being the only option.
What’s the point of the standstill period, then, if it’s already signed?
 

LOL The Irony

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SNCF also want to sue the DafT. https://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/news/f...to-sue-after-being-kicked-off-hs2-trains-bid/
French rail giant SNCF is threatening to sue the Department for Transport after it was ruled out of a contest to run High Speed 2 trains in a row over pensions.
The state-owned operator had teamed up with Stagecoach and Virgin to bid for the West Coast Partnership. Earlier this month, though, the consortium was disqualified from the competition over the level of pension liabilities it was prepared to take on.

Guillaume Pepy, chairman of SNCF, said it was considering legal action. SNCF is desperate to secure a place on Britain’s new £56bn railway from London to Manchester and Leeds.

“Our common offer has been disqualified, not because we did not provide the best offer from a customer standpoint, but because we do not accept to bear risk which is not manageable and not measurable,” he said. Pepy declined to say on what legal basis he might challenge the disqualification.

The DfT said: “It is entirely for Stagecoach and their bidding partners to explain why they decided to repeatedly ignore established rules by rejecting the commercial terms on offer.”

SNCF’s exit leaves two consortiums in the running for the route, which will merge existing West Coast services with the new HS2 trains. FirstGroup has teamed up with Italy’s Trenitalia and Hong Kong operator MTR is working with China’s Guangshen Railway Company and Spain’s Renfe.

However, SNCF’s stance on the HS2 franchise is in contrast with its bid for the South Eastern route. Its subsidiary, Keolis, is bidding with Go-Ahead to retain South Eastern, and appears to have accepted pensions risk.
 

Bertie the bus

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Hmm, what is even less palatable than a tax exiled billionaire whinging about not being able to make the profit he wants at the expense of British tax payers? Oh yes, a foreign government agency doing the same.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm quite happy that SNCF (certainly the worst of the Western European nationalised railways) is as far away from the WCML as possible. But I do remain with Stagecoach on the pensions thing - it needs underwriting by the Government, then the final salary scheme to be closed to new entrants in favour of an investment scheme.
 

StaffsWCML

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I'm quite happy that SNCF (certainly the worst of the Western European nationalised railways) is as far away from the WCML as possible. But I do remain with Stagecoach on the pensions thing - it needs underwriting by the Government, then the final salary scheme to be closed to new entrants in favour of an investment scheme.

Think they are probably preferable to FirstGroup in any form with any partner.

MTR are a bit of an unknown, but feel they underestimate the complexities of the British Rail Network.

The pensions issues needs sorting. Franchise awards should be halted until this is sorted.

The Dutch Tax payer now has one hell of a liability. The figures don't add up.
 

[.n]

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Think they are probably preferable to FirstGroup in any form with any partner.

MTR are a bit of an unknown, but feel they underestimate the complexities of the British Rail Network.

I've no idea what input, apart from money, MTR, have put into SWR, but First/MTR are definitely useless!!
 

lordbusiness

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A big black hole that DaFT want the franchisee to be full liable for rather than itself/The Treasury

Also puts an interesting angle on the nationalisation vs privatisation debate. Any government renationalising would have to take the black hole back on.

(Or just ignore it, write it off and thousands of retired and current rail workers will see their pensions drop- which admittedly might happen anyway).
 

PR1Berske

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Also puts an interesting angle on the nationalisation vs privatisation debate. Any government renationalising would have to take the black hole back on.

(Or just ignore it, write it off and thousands of retired and current rail workers will see their pensions drop- which admittedly might happen anyway).
An issue often ignored whenever nationalisation is discussed. You can have all the BR uniform revivals you want but if there's not enough pension money in the pot....
 

talltim

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But at the end of the day the black hole will come back to the government either way. If it costs too much for private operators they will not bid, default part way through or put in bids that cost it in and thus pay lower premiums/require higher subsidy
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I'm surprised that they haven't press released this... even so much as getting Beardy involved for the Virgin elements.

The initial specific action is on the East Midlands franchise so doesn't involve Virgin.
Looks like this is the first of several legal claims to be pursued.
 

YorkshireBear

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And the real losers if the legal actions continues (not arguing they are not in their right to do so) will be customers as improvements are delayed, having been delayed already.
 

pt_mad

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And the real losers if the legal actions continues (not arguing they are not in their right to do so) will be customers as improvements are delayed, having been delayed already.
Is it even realistic to delay the West Coast Partnership given HS2 will be looming?
 

Robertj21a

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And the real losers if the legal actions continues (not arguing they are not in their right to do so) will be customers as improvements are delayed, having been delayed already.

Perhaps DafT should get their act together so that everyone can move forward with more confidence than they probably have at present.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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And the real losers if the legal actions continues (not arguing they are not in their right to do so) will be customers as improvements are delayed, having been delayed already.
An old but true saying - the only people who end up winning a lawsuit are the lawyers!
 

pt_mad

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And the real losers if the legal actions continues (not arguing they are not in their right to do so) will be customers as improvements are delayed, having been delayed already.
Perhaps these short direct awards should be a little more ambitious than they have been. If extra capacity or routes are needed then write them into direct awards if it's possible so the passenger doesn't lose out.
 

embers25

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And the real losers if the legal actions continues (not arguing they are not in their right to do so) will be customers as improvements are delayed, having been delayed already.

Given most franchises now involve the bear minimum improvements or, as in the case of SWR, totally infeasible ones, a further delay is not the end of the world. Giving each franchise to bargain basement priced Abellio is hardly good for passengers.
 

Killingworth

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Given most franchises now involve the bear minimum improvements or, as in the case of SWR, totally infeasible ones, a further delay is not the end of the world. Giving each franchise to bargain basement priced Abellio is hardly good for passengers.

But if they all end up with one franchisee nationalisation might be easier!
 

Goldfish62

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Given most franchises now involve the bear minimum improvements or, as in the case of SWR, totally infeasible ones, a further delay is not the end of the world. Giving each franchise to bargain basement priced Abellio is hardly good for passengers.
NedRail is playing fast and lose with Dutch taxpayers' money.
 

Bletchleyite

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NedRail is playing fast and lose with Dutch taxpayers' money.

If they want to do that it isn't really the UK's problem. Arguably we should load Abellio up with high-risk, low-pay franchises if they'll take them and take full advantage of the subsidy being chucked over from a different country.
 
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