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APCOA starting to charge motorbikes full rate at SWR stations

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Antman

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first time I’ve used Guildford station for a while. Used motorbike as easy, quick, less cofestion and free. Hang on.

APCOA now run Guildford station parking. And put up new signs. Charging full rate for bikes. About fifteen quid a day.

A bike takes up a miniscule amount of space compared to car (5-6 into a car space as the cars have to parked nose to tail with station layout).

Ok, free parking was a bonus, but charging full rate.... come on. What will APCOA do if the bikers decide they want what they have paid for, and take a car space each....

Is this a policy everywhere for APCOA and SWR now ? How can it be sensible to basically discourage small environmentally congestion dodging transport by mullering them on cost. Or was it just NR contracting out to APCOA who decided they can, do they will ....
 
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WelshBluebird

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Without knowing the area, is the car park usually full (with presumably other cars not able to park there because it is full)? Wondering if its basically an attempt to force the bikes out totally (knowing that they can probably park elsewhere fairly easily as they take up less room), whilst knowing that cars paying the full rate will be able to take up the now free spaces?
 

Antman

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It’s got a large taxi rank between the bikes and the carriageway. It’s not an attempt to force bikes out. That wound simply be saying no bikes. It’s exploitative. Making 75-90 quid a day per space to have a load of cab drivers blocking you at rush hour when you want to leave anyway is Knightsbridge money. The car park is basically commuters. It’s full anyway and there already complaints about the parking costs. They are sky high. So discouraging motorbikes as people will be more likely to drive if they’re not saving fifteen quid. Am tempted to simply park in a car space next time. That way the scooter scum bags (insert smiley here, I own two ...) don’t ding, scratch and dent you
 

Antman

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App. So electronic. And why they can easily do differential pricing (so that can’t be the excuse).
 

Bletchleyite

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That's not so bad then, I've been places where you're supposed to place the ticket on your bike

The impracticality of placing a ticket on a bike (and not some kind of altruism towards motorcyclists) is the main reason why parking is so often free for motorcyclists. Expect this to change everywhere...
 

Antman

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institutionally they want rid of bikes. It is harder to get a licence, it’s restricted until you are older to get a decently powerful one. They don’t like how they are so easy to use, move and difficult to moderate and control. Mine saves me about 90 minutes a day in traffic and used to save time and money on parking (I usually claim the parking back anyway but someone has to pay). My partner rides to the station to commute daily. Early so no traffic. If she has to pay she’ll just use a car. Heated electric seats, steering wheel and AC. Fuel economy of 50mpg. Why bother with the bike any more. So that’s one car park space lost. Lots of others will think the same ...
 

John Webb

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first time I’ve used Guildford station for a while. Used motorbike as easy, quick, less cofestion and free. Hang on.

APCOA now run Guildford station parking. And put up new signs. Charging full rate for bikes. About fifteen quid a day.

A bike takes up a miniscule amount of space compared to car (5-6 into a car space as the cars have to parked nose to tail with station layout).

Ok, free parking was a bonus, but charging full rate.... come on. What will APCOA do if the bikers decide they want what they have paid for, and take a car space each....

Is this a policy everywhere for APCOA and SWR now ? How can it be sensible to basically discourage small environmentally congestion dodging transport by mullering them on cost. Or was it just NR contracting out to APCOA who decided they can, do they will ....
I understood that it was the TOC running the station that set the prices, not the car park operator who is a sub-contractor to the TOC. So perhaps comments/complaints should be addressed to the TOC?
 

nuts & bolts

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I understood that it was the TOC running the station that set the prices, not the car park operator who is a sub-contractor to the TOC. So perhaps comments/complaints should be addressed to the TOC?

I believe Network Rail now operate the station along with Clapham Jct and a couple of more stations that were taken over last year and introduced a new car parking operator to these stations.
 

Bletchleyite

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institutionally they want rid of bikes. It is harder to get a licence, it’s restricted until you are older to get a decently powerful one.

That is because it is harder to ride a motorcycle safely than to drive a car safely, and you have less protection around you so are more likely to be killed by incompetent riding than by incompetent car driving. Not because of any vendetta against bikes.
 

driver_m

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That is because it is harder to ride a motorcycle safely than to drive a car safely, and you have less protection around you so are more likely to be killed by incompetent riding than by incompetent car driving. Not because of any vendetta against bikes.


I’m a biker myself and riding a bike makes you a better car driver without a shadow of a doubt. It makes you far more aware of what’s around you. I agree with the way bikes are taught and I’d make car drivers do the same. Seems crazy that in theory you can pass your test aged 17 in a Citroen C1 and be immediately let loose in a Range Rover Sport or a Golf R32 yet a biker has to have something that’s strangled for their own safety. For me thats double standards and this country is very anti-motorbike. You’ve been round Germany judging by your knowledge of the trains over there and I’ll bet you agree that they’re far more courteous over there, and the French are even better. Best biker country I’ve ever been to. The standards of road safety over here have fell off a cliff in the last 6 or 7 years. I’ve no idea why this is but I’ve noticed an increase in near misses (and they can’t all be spotters trying to take me out for my anti-steam stance hehe ;)). I can’t see though why a relatively minor group of users gets charged full rate though, that’s outrageous, and will just mean people leave bikes on pavements, near buildings etc. Places like Chester station have the right idea on bikes. A nice covered area near the bays for both types of bikes.
 

Antman

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My partner also rides. She has become a much better driver since learning to ride a motorbike. Appreciation for hazards, planning ahead and she seems to hit the brakes a lot less and lot less hard (anticipation). All car drivers should at least do a CBT. I have found her alternative covered free parking two minutes from the station and she’ll get to secure the bike to something solid (it’s nickable) as she’s so early but it’s still a faff compared to parking at the station. As said, three/four quid a day - fine. Fifteen. Nope. Unless someone else is paying. Have tried to take it up with APCOA. I am expecting them to fudge their answer....
 

AM9

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My partner also rides. She has become a much better driver since learning to ride a motorbike. Appreciation for hazards, planning ahead and she seems to hit the brakes a lot less and lot less hard (anticipation). All car drivers should at least do a CBT. I have found her alternative covered free parking two minutes from the station and she’ll get to secure the bike to something solid (it’s nickable) as she’s so early but it’s still a faff compared to parking at the station. As said, three/four quid a day - fine. Fifteen. Nope. Unless someone else is paying. Have tried to take it up with APCOA. I am expecting them to fudge their answer....
That's because the have decided to do it and probably aren't intending to withdraw the change. It's not as if there will be hundreds of regular car customers boycotting the car park in sympathy.
 

gordonthemoron

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That's because the have decided to do it and probably aren't intending to withdraw the change. It's not as if there will be hundreds of regular car customers boycotting the car park in sympathy.

Mebe, but the motorcyclists could legitimately occupy the car parking spaces which would reduce their revenue and cause them aggravation
 

Bletchleyite

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You’ve been round Germany judging by your knowledge of the trains over there and I’ll bet you agree that they’re far more courteous over there, and the French are even better.

The standard of driving in Germany is certainly generally very high, in the Netherlands too. The French do like to tailgate, though, so I'm slightly surprised by that - but they are obviously paying a lot of attention as otherwise the rear-ending rate would be massive.
 

driver_m

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The standard of driving in Germany is certainly generally very high, in the Netherlands too. The French do like to tailgate, though, so I'm slightly surprised by that - but they are obviously paying a lot of attention as otherwise the rear-ending rate would be massive.

Got tailgated twice in a 3000 mile trip. One kid in a Saxo vts and an Austrian Golf driver showing off in front of his bird. I found the French drivers superb. Spanish excellent too, again bikes are in the blood over there and seem to be very aware.

Just to sort of get back on track, Lime St Multi Storey charges a quid for bikes. I’m sure they’re ran by APCOA too, it’s owned by NR. Hope this helps.
 

driver_m

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Incidentally, a lot of new or revamped car parks now offer dedicated M/C spaces. So it shouldn’t be an issue anyway as to whether a car space is taken. London/SE is probably unique in the country for the large numbers on 2 wheels so I’d have thought there would be far more provision down there anyway and more geared up to bikes like dedicated parking areas that I’ve seen around the Euston area (pre-HS2 building)
 

RichJF

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Politically there is still a belief that motorcyclists are seen as the "villain" & should stick to 4 wheels.
Look at the ULEZ charge in London that is potentially putting thousands of people at risk of their livelihood. A city full of motorbikes would probably be greener, safer than a city filled with buses, cars, old taxis competing against each other.
The number of people getting a bike licence is dropping like a stone, the ignorance of car drivers for bikers is rising steadily and bike are still charged by their capacity (old format) whereas cars are not.

Yes I am a biker with car/bike licences & I used to ride to the station & commute.

If they really want people to stop using motorbikes & being more sustainable, encourage the use of electric cars & bikes and offer a reduced car park tariff to move to them.
 

gordonthemoron

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Politically there is still a belief that motorcyclists are seen as the "villain" & should stick to 4 wheels.
Look at the ULEZ charge in London that is potentially putting thousands of people at risk of their livelihood. A city full of motorbikes would probably be greener, safer than a city filled with buses, cars, old taxis competing against each other.
The number of people getting a bike licence is dropping like a stone, the ignorance of car drivers for bikers is rising steadily and bike are still charged by their capacity (old format) whereas cars are not.

Yes I am a biker with car/bike licences & I used to ride to the station & commute.

If they really want people to stop using motorbikes & being more sustainable, encourage the use of electric cars & bikes and offer a reduced car park tariff to move to them.

Presumably you've never been to Saigon? I'm a biker too
 

Bletchleyite

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Politically there is still a belief that motorcyclists are seen as the "villain" & should stick to 4 wheels.
Look at the ULEZ charge in London that is potentially putting thousands of people at risk of their livelihood. A city full of motorbikes would probably be greener, safer than a city filled with buses, cars, old taxis competing against each other.

Ever been to Vietnam? We probably don't want a city full of motorcycles either.

It would be better to have a city of pedestrians, cyclists, trams, electric buses and trains. Taxis...well, you need the odd one, but again electric. Most people using taxis are just being lazy and could well use bus, Tube or bike.

Electric motorcycles will have a role, but I don't see that it would be sensible to actively encourage them (they're better than cars, but worse than public transport) - if you think it would, take a trip to Hanoi and see if you still think so.
 

Non Multi

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Ever been to Vietnam? We probably don't want a city full of motorcycles either.

It would be better to have a city of pedestrians, cyclists, trams, electric buses and trains. Taxis...well, you need the odd one, but again electric. Most people using taxis are just being lazy and could well use bus, Tube or bike.

Electric motorcycles will have a role, but I don't see that it would be sensible to actively encourage them (they're better than cars, but worse than public transport) - if you think it would, take a trip to Hanoi and see if you still think so.
Yes, for instance let's get rid of the hospital couriers on motorbikes. Give them all push bikes instead and let the patients wait longer for organs or blood. Absolutely brilliant idea.
 

Mordac

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Ever been to Vietnam? We probably don't want a city full of motorcycles either.

It would be better to have a city of pedestrians, cyclists, trams, electric buses and trains. Taxis...well, you need the odd one, but again electric. Most people using taxis are just being lazy and could well use bus, Tube or bike.

Electric motorcycles will have a role, but I don't see that it would be sensible to actively encourage them (they're better than cars, but worse than public transport) - if you think it would, take a trip to Hanoi and see if you still think so.
If those people were in cars rather than motorbikes it would be much worse. It's just not practical for some people to be tied to public transport schedules. If I wanted to take a bus to the railway station here in Northampton, I'd need to change at the bus station in the city centre and it would take me at least four times as long.

Motorcycle use have been shown to reduce congestion. Consider this report of a Belgian study which found that if just 10% of motorists on a particularly busy stretch of highway switched to a motorcycle or scooter, congestion for all road users would be reduced by 40%. This is because motorcycles can travel at the same speed as a car in fast flowing traffic, but occupy less space in congested traffic due to filtering. They also use smaller engines than cars, thereby generating less emissions, but can be ridden by people of all levels of physical fitness (within fairly wide boundaries at least) over much longer distances than a pushbike, and at faster speeds. And even for parking, I'd say unless you're dealing with extremely large touring bikes, you can usually fit at least 3 motorbikes in a car parking space.
 

Antman

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And to complete this. Network Rail changed their policy within weeks.

Parking charges started in June. Clearly didn’t work and suspended in August. And all parking charges rescinded/cancelled. I can only assume it’ll all come back when they go digital on the parking enforcement. With a vengeance.

So you can currently park motorcycles and scooters for free at Guildford again (tried to upload a photo of sign but too large and am too old to work out how to resize it..)
 
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