jonesy3001
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When do the northern 323s start going for PRM mods?
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Northern 323s refurbishment and cascade
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August is the latest I’ve heard.
jonesy3001
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Nice, do you think they'll be coming back in the old or new northern colours.
Greybeard33
Established Member
My interpretation of this is that Gemini only has capacity to carry out PRM mods on the 26-strong WMT fleet by the end of year deadline. Unless the Northern units can be modded somewhere else, or they get a temporary derogation, that would mean that the entire Northern fleet has to be withdrawn by the year end (replaced by the 3-car 331s).
If Porterbrook takes up the option of a follow-on contract for the 17 Northern units, and agrees a deal with Northern for them to replace 319s, they could all be returned to traffic (at one every two weeks) by late summer 2020. Otherwise they will go into storage as is.
Or am I missing something?
notlob.divad
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Unless they could process the Northern Units through the Glasgow depot. I have read the news articles that it is winding down operations but won't shut until March 2020. Could that align with the completion of Northern 323 overhauls?
I'm guessing some units will get PRM mods when they go for refurbishment while the others get PRM mods separately
LOL The Irony
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Have any gone for refurb yet?
RealTrains07
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I can second that, as said in another thread about battery conversion of 323s
“it says in Modern railways, northern are looking at taking on all of WMRs 323s in order to both fill the gaps while 195s are having the fault dealt with and to also boost capacity on DMU operated services as according to northern the WMR 323 have ‘better equipment and acceleration’ than the 323s they own”
Plus by the time they are transferred they will all be PRM compliant
(Sorry if this has been found out before but didn’t realise this thread was so long)
anamyd
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finally, some mention of the 195s being made safe.
Not yet, no.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
So how are 323s going to substitute for DMUs? Are they going to do some pretty vicious cutting of diesel routes so DMUs only run on routes without wires, i.e. stuff like Buxton being a shuttle from Hazel Grove, the Mid Cheshire only to Stockport etc?
So does this mean that Northern and WMT will be swapping 323s?
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LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Anything can happen of course, but I doubt Northern will have a larger EMU fleet than they have now.
It might be made up differently, but I don't believe they have funding for more stock than was in the franchise agreement.
Some of the EMUs are also supposed to be bi-modes, which today means 319s.
It might be made up differently, but I don't believe they have funding for more stock than was in the franchise agreement.
Some of the EMUs are also supposed to be bi-modes, which today means 319s.
RealTrains07
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No WMR 323s will add on to what they have
RealTrains07
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The idea is to boost EMU services on lines which have both EMU and DMU running so then the DMUs can boost other existing DMU only services
I very much doubt that Northern has said that. LNW's post #435 (above) looks pretty accurate to me.
jonesy3001
Established Member
43 323s, the 26 from WMT to replace the 26 319s and the 3 short term ones 372/373/446.
43 331/0 - 331/1s that will be split between allerton and neville hill and replace the 321s (3) and 322s (5) and probably go 6 car
16 333s that are getting refurbed as i type and the
8 769s that have disappeared but should be in service.
Think northern are ok for EMUs
43 331/0 - 331/1s that will be split between allerton and neville hill and replace the 321s (3) and 322s (5) and probably go 6 car
16 333s that are getting refurbed as i type and the
8 769s that have disappeared but should be in service.
Think northern are ok for EMUs
Apperantly, the 319s
I thought Northern were keeping the 319s, they should at least keep some if Im honest
YorkshireBear
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The 319s would be perfect for many northern routes just not many on Bolton corridor or wcml. Shame more electrification hadn't occurred they'd be great for rose hill/new Mills services. Or similar.
Nymanic
Member
If the 769s could actually run a service or two, they'd possibly help consign a lot of 150s to the cutting torch. Sadly, that's not the case.
It's also a shame that there's no prospect of further electrification of suburban routes - Ashburys/Guide Bridge to New Mills Central/Rose Hill would suit 323s perfectly, and these routes probably wouldn't justify new stock.
It's also a shame that there's no prospect of further electrification of suburban routes - Ashburys/Guide Bridge to New Mills Central/Rose Hill would suit 323s perfectly, and these routes probably wouldn't justify new stock.
RealTrains07
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They didnt, i just presumed that how it would work
Was on the train to Guide Bridge this morning and mentioned to the guard that I'd heard rumours about Northern keeping the 323s. He said they were staying and Northern was also getting the ones from Birmingham. He sounded fairly definite about it.
Theres far too many rumours on the railway that end up as 'fact' to believe anything until it happens
I was talking to one of the WMR managers at New street a few days back who seems to think that the Northern 323s will be going to WM temporarily to increase capacity on Cross city, replace a few under the wires 170 workings to send them onto Herefords when the 153s are withdrawn and release more 350s off the Wolves-walsall diagrams, he seemed sure of that too! Until the day comes one moves I'd take it all with a pinch of salt.
323 Class
Member
Any suggestions on the alternative stock that would equal or better the 323 performance if we lost them on the Glossop line?
edwin_m
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The 3-car 331s ought to achieve similar times on this route (and probably better the 323 on routes where they can exceed its 90mph top speed).
Nymanic
Member
I'm not sure the 30% reduction in seated capacity would go down so well at peak times, though. What good is a brand new 331 when it leaves you behind on the platform?
I'm sure I'd previously read that 4-car 331s would eventually run to Glossop/Hadfield, although having been shipped over to West Yorkshire, this is unlikely anytime soon.
RealTrains07
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Doubt it according to a source the new CAF 196 units will start working in wm end of the year
They're extending platforms on the Glossop Line, so it is entirely plausible. The shortest platforms are Flowery Field and Godley currently, both at 85m. Class 323s are 70.18m (23.37m x2 + 23.44m), so the extension is needed for four car trains.
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