GWR Class 800

northernbelle · 14 May 2019

fgwrich said:
No doubt I’ll be told off for this as well by the everything’s fine brigade, but I have a new complaint with these units. I’m currently travelling on one of the 800/3s, along a route I have travelled on near daily for many years, at linespeed. Yet nothing I’ve travelled on has oscillated this badly before. There’s a lot of side to side motion and subsequent rattling / creaking.

Unfortunately for this forum I’ve filmed it as a video but can’t upload it.

A new complaint? Never.

I believe reports of rough riding are currently being investigated by the engineering teams. I do remember the yaw dampers having to be adjusted on the 395s when they were new for similar reasons.

cactustwirly said:
Well the 222s do have a buffet counter, and more luggage space than the 802s.
But the only way they'd match the capacity of the HSTs would be to run as 2 x 5 car sets.

The 222s do not have more luggage space than the 802s by a country mile. They'd have been a disaster on the busier trains to the west.

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cactustwirly · 14 May 2019

northernbelle said:
A new complaint? Never.

I believe reports of rough riding are currently being investigated by the engineering teams. I do remember the yaw dampers having to be adjusted on the 395s when they were new for similar reasons.

The 222s do not have more luggage space than the 802s by a country mile. They'd have been a disaster on the busier trains to the west.

The 222s have larger racks at the end of the carriages

northernbelle · 14 May 2019

cactustwirly said:
The 222s have larger racks at the end of the carriages

That forms a very small proportion of the overall luggage capacity. The overhead racks on 22x are pitiful, whereas the 802s are about the largest you'll find. The 802s also have several of the large luggage cupboards at the coach ends along with a lot more between-seats storage.

trebor79 · 14 May 2019

TBH I quite like the 80x. They are spacious, airy and very quiet aside from a bit of traction motor noise up to about 40mph (which I quite like).
The only thing wrong with the train itself are the poor seats and lack of catering. Arguably some of the 5 cars should have been 9 or 10 car.
I find them far pleasanter to travel on than a GWR HST with its claustrophobia inducing interior.

Incidentally, why are the 9 cars not 10 cars? Given the route accepts 10 car in the form of doubles up 5 car units?

fgwrich · 14 May 2019

northernbelle said:
A new complaint? Never.

I believe reports of rough riding are currently being investigated by the engineering teams. I do remember the yaw dampers having to be adjusted on the 395s when they were new for similar reasons.

The 222s do not have more luggage space than the 802s by a country mile. They'd have been a disaster on the busier trains to the west.

Thank you for your reply, at least the second half of it was more useful than the first. Good to hear that the riding issues are being looked at.

Or should I just not bother to point out the negatives in these trains considered to be so perfect by a few? For reference, I spoke to a few other passengers and they noticed the same. The coach involved was one of the inside frame bogies.

59CosG95 · 14 May 2019

trebor79 said:
TBH I quite like the 80x. They are spacious, airy and very quiet aside from a bit of traction motor noise up to about 40mph (which I quite like).
The only thing wrong with the train itself are the poor seats and lack of catering. Arguably some of the 5 cars should have been 9 or 10 car.
I find them far pleasanter to travel on than a GWR HST with its claustrophobia inducing interior.

Incidentally, why are the 9 cars not 10 cars? Given the route accepts 10 car in the form of doubles up 5 car units?

DfT made that decision; obviously, going forward, GWR ordered 802s in similar configurations for ease of crewing.
And I believe that the 5-car vice 10-car decision was one of splitting and flexibility (at least, on the drawing board. The theory hasn't really worked in practice)

43074 · 14 May 2019

59CosG95 said:
DfT made that decision; obviously, going forward, GWR ordered 802s in similar configurations for ease of crewing.
And I believe that the 5-car vice 10-car decision was one of splitting and flexibility (at least, on the drawing board. The theory hasn't really worked in practice)

To be fair the current timetable wasn't written around splitting and joining, that will be the December timetable. The 5-cars will come into their own then for things like the hourly service to Cheltenham, the 2-hourly Taunton stopping service and a clockface timetable to Worcester, with splits and joins at Oxford.

northernbelle · 14 May 2019

fgwrich said:
Thank you for your reply, at least the second half of it was more useful than the first. Good to hear that the riding issues are being looked at.

Or should I just not bother to point out the negatives in these trains considered to be so perfect by a few? For reference, I spoke to a few other passengers and they noticed the same. The coach involved was one of the inside frame bogies.

Positive and negative welcome here - nothing in this world is perfect after all. However, repetition of the same thing over and over again is frankly neither interesting or constructive.

JamesT · 14 May 2019

59CosG95 said:
DfT made that decision; obviously, going forward, GWR ordered 802s in similar configurations for ease of crewing.
And I believe that the 5-car vice 10-car decision was one of splitting and flexibility (at least, on the drawing board. The theory hasn't really worked in practice)

Isn't it partly that the capacity of a 9-car is essentially the same as 2x5-car? Which makes it easier to substitute one for the other in the event of an issue? Whereas if you had a full 10-car that broke and you could only replace it with 2x5-car then you'd be struggling to fit everyone on.

fgwrich · 14 May 2019

northernbelle said:
Positive and negative welcome here - nothing in this world is perfect after all. However, repetition of the same thing over and over again is frankly neither interesting or constructive.

Indeed, however ride quality relating to severe oscillation has not been mentioned as far as I am aware of yet. I’m aware of their ride quality across pointwork, but I’ve not experienced this kind of severe oscillation at full linespeed before on any other stock, let alone anything else operating along the route.

Mag_seven · 14 May 2019

I experienced some door problems on a set today when it took about 5 mins for the doors to open. The fact that the guard could not communicate with the driver did not help.

Darandio · 14 May 2019

northernbelle said:
Positive and negative welcome here - nothing in this world is perfect after all. However, repetition of the same thing over and over again is frankly neither interesting or constructive.

1, I haven't seen it repeated over and over again.
2, Who put you in charge if the thread?
3, Are you jimm in disguise?

cactustwirly · 14 May 2019

43074 said:
To be fair the current timetable wasn't written around splitting and joining, that will be the December timetable. The 5-cars will come into their own then for things like the hourly service to Cheltenham, the 2-hourly Taunton stopping service and a clockface timetable to Worcester, with splits and joins at Oxford.

I was under the impression that splitting/joining at Oxford had been dropped, because of punctuality issues.
Doesn't the Worcester route not have a clock face timetable anyway?

northernbelle · 14 May 2019

Darandio said:
1, I haven't seen it repeated over and over again.
2, Who put you in charge if the thread?
3, Are you jimm in disguise?

1. You don't get to 390 pages of discussion without the same things being repeated.
2. I'm entitled to my view just as you are.
3. No, but share a number of his frustrations.

rdrdrd · 14 May 2019

Hello everyone - my first post ever. I was stuck on a briefly broken down 800 last night, we stopped outside of Didcot Parkway for almost 30 minutes.

What struck me was just how hot it got in the carriage, engine was still running but the air con was off. Within about 15 minutes it was noticeably hot, by 25 minutes almost unbearably hot... couldn’t understand how it got so hot. In the end they resolved whatever was up and we started moving again, but with a 14C outside temperature I’d dread to think what the temperature would have been like on a broken 800 in the height of summer.

The train carried on as as Chippenham before being diverted and the reversed at Melksham to carry on to Bath and Bristol...just one hour late

Bletchleyite · 14 May 2019

Most trains don't have climate control (where the air is mixed to temperature then circulated), they instead have separate cooling and heating. I suspect the cooling part had failed but the heating part not.

Jensen · 14 May 2019

Regarding the rough riding. I have noticed over the past two or three days whilst on IET's a sensation not felt before with lateral displacement at several places along the GWML. A bit disturbing to me as a long term railway man. Came and went but was not limited to S&C areas but plain line as well. But not consistent. No doubt there will be data somewhere to enable an understanding of what is going on. Enough to lift your coffee cup off the table.

rdrdrd · 14 May 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Most trains don't have climate control (where the air is mixed to temperature then circulated), they instead have separate cooling and heating. I suspect the cooling part had failed but the heating part not.

That would explain it especially as the engine was still running throughout and presumably still making hot air.

Bletchleyite · 14 May 2019

rdrdrd said:
That would explain it especially as the engine was still running throughout and presumably still making hot air.

Even if it wasn't circulating it, it's still a socking great engine directly underneath the passenger compartment which is made of metal and nicely conducts heat, not to mention hot air rising...

fgwrich · 15 May 2019

Jensen said:
Regarding the rough riding. I have noticed over the past two or three days whilst on IET's a sensation not felt before with lateral displacement at several places along the GWML. A bit disturbing to me as a long term railway man. Came and went but was not limited to S&C areas but plain line as well. But not consistent. No doubt there will be data somewhere to enable an understanding of what is going on. Enough to lift your coffee cup off the table.

That sounds very much like the rough oscillating experience I felt yesterday at full linespeed. Very noticeable - wobbling from the bottom upwards. A sensation that I have never felt before either!

Gagravarr · 15 May 2019

After a few 80x trips between Oxford and London, today I've had a fun mix. 3 coach turbo "fast" to Reading, then everyone off, mad dash along the platform against a flow of people coming the other way, and a 4 coach 387 onwards to Slough and Paddington.

Seats wise, I think the turbo was probably the best. 387 feels fairly similarly poor as the 800, but not terrible on a 1 hour run to Oxford.

Ride quality is interesting. I've often found the 800s to have poorer ride quality than an HST or a turbo. However, this 387 is juddering and wriggling so badly I'm struggling to type! Admittedly, it's a late running service (due to unit swap at Reading) and is on the fast line, so presumably going almost flat-out, but it does put my past comments on 800s ride quality in perspective...

Bletchleyite · 15 May 2019

Gagravarr said:
Seats wise, I think the turbo was probably the best. 387 feels fairly similarly poor as the 800, but not terrible on a 1 hour run to Oxford.

387s don't have that stupid metal bar. That said, be careful to compare the original cloth 800 seat and the modified moquette one separately - the former is awful, the latter is just a bit sub-par.

coppercapped · 15 May 2019

fgwrich said:
That sounds very much like the rough oscillating experience I felt yesterday at full linespeed. Very noticeable - wobbling from the bottom upwards. A sensation that I have never felt before either!

This rough riding has been noticed and reported on in other forums, for example recent posts in the Great Western Coffee Shop here refer to the same issue.

A couple of days ago I went up to London and there were some really loud clonks and bangs from underneath - the first just east of Maidenhead East crossing. There were a couple more later but I didn't record where. I also didn't notice what type of bogie it was as I was in a bit of a hurry at Paddington.

I can't remember a BT10 bogie making the same noises and jarring bumps - it was almost as if a traction motor was loose on its mountings and it brought back memories of much older stock - BR Mark 1s and some older Southern Railway electric stock. For new train it didn't impress me.

bastien · 15 May 2019

Gagravarr said:
After a few 80x trips between Oxford and London, today I've had a fun mix. 3 coach turbo "fast" to Reading, then everyone off, mad dash along the platform against a flow of people coming the other way, and a 4 coach 387 onwards to Slough and Paddington.

Seats wise, I think the turbo was probably the best. 387 feels fairly similarly poor as the 800, but not terrible on a 1 hour run to Oxford.

Ride quality is interesting. I've often found the 800s to have poorer ride quality than an HST or a turbo. However, this 387 is juddering and wriggling so badly I'm struggling to type! Admittedly, it's a late running service (due to unit swap at Reading) and is on the fast line, so presumably going almost flat-out, but it does put my past comments on 800s ride quality in perspective...

Maybe it's the track, if both types of train are experiencing this problem?

curly42 · 15 May 2019

I've now clocked up over 10,000 miles on the 800s,and apart from the awful seats,I find them quite acceptable.The rough riding I've only experienced between Swindon and Paddington,although it is very rough.

route101 · 15 May 2019

Took 1103 on saturday there from London to Exeter , nice enough train , seats could be a wee bit softer . Lack of buffet , trolley did not come for a long time . Did not notice much difference from electric to diesel , is it Newbury when the changeover occurs ?

Mag_seven · 15 May 2019

route101 said:
is it Newbury when the changeover occurs ?

Yes it is.

northernbelle · 15 May 2019

The standard class end of 800023 (811023) has today been named 'Firefighter Fleur Lombard QGM'. The First Class end (815023) carries the name 'Kathryn Osmond'

TractiveEffort · 15 May 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Even if it wasn't circulating it, it's still a socking great engine directly underneath the passenger compartment which is made of metal and nicely conducts heat, not to mention hot air rising...

The engine doesn’t circulate hot air and there is a fair bit of insulation between the engine and saloon floor, so whilst there will be some convection, it won’t be huge amounts.

Mikey C · 15 May 2019

route101 said:
Took 1103 on saturday there from London to Exeter , nice enough train , seats could be a wee bit softer . Lack of buffet , trolley did not come for a long time . Did not notice much difference from electric to diesel , is it Newbury when the changeover occurs ?

If it ever actually operated in electric mode in the first place!

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