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Worcestershire Parkway station progress
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We are just discussing the possibilities of Worcestershire Parkway becoming an interchange station in addition to being a Parkway station and that could mean extending CrossCity from Bromsgrove that means performance of electric trains between both points to make interchange worthwhile for stations onwards to Brum.
moggie
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Surprised no one has mentioned the vast housing development taking place around M5 Jcn 7 and the proximity of this and Pershore to the new station? Plenty of potential new custom in those areas alone, particularly if using car to get to the existing stations which are all constrained for parking spaces. But surely the obvious new custom will be for Worcester to Cardiff and the Southwest (one same platform change at Cheltenham) where the whole area including Droitwich is poorly served at present. I'm under no illusion that it will take time for the new custom to develop as the TOC's develop an adequate timetable frequency of calls. But the custom is waiting. It just needs the TOC's to step up and make those calls with trains one can actually get on to places they need to travel - WMT take note!.
If electrification is extended beyond Bromsgrove, I can assure you that the place people will want West Midlands services to go is into the city of Worcester and hopefully at least as far as Great Malvern as well. The number of passengers from Worcester(shire) wanting the intermediate stations on the way into Birmingham is limited. Bromsgrove and University (station for the QE Hospital complex) are already served by the Hereford-Worcester-New Street services anyway and an easy connection with Cross-City trains is now available at Bromsgrove, should someone want to reach Longbridge etc.
As currently arranged, Worcestershire Parkway has no ability to act as a turnback location, which would come with a hefty price tag for the extra platforms(s) needed, along with points and signals. People in Worcester would rather that any funding that is available is spent on desperately needed modernisation work on the railway lines in the city.
Provision of adequate capacity on the north-south axis is rather more in the gift of the Department for Transport than anyone else, as it requires CrossCountry to get new or extra rolling stock fleet that can handle existing custom and allow for more from places like Worcestershire Parkway. PS: GWR, Wychavon district and Worcestershire county councils are working to get a scheme for a large new car park on the north side of the line at Pershore.
But you are still not addressing those living east and southeast of the city who commute by car into Brum because of inadequate parking at Shrub Hill and Foregate St. and trying to get there. They might be tempted to use train for their commute if CrossCity was extended to Parkway.
Cardiff-Nottinghams do not want to stop at Parkway and Bromsgrove as this extends journey time.
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Glenn1969
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Worcestershire Parkway 's Wiki page uses the term Regional Interchange and says there are plans for a Phase 2 with platforms on the XC line to Bristol after the initial opening on the Cotswold Line only. Is hoping for XC trains to call realistic?
ForTheLoveOf
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XC services will call, and those that will, already have a 'shadow' call at Worcestershire Parkway in the May timetable. It's just that it will only be the Cardiff/Nottingham ones calling, not the other 2tph in each direction, and of the CDF/NOTs it will be 1tph from Birmingham and 1tp2h to Birmingham (with exceptions at the start and end of service each day), so a bit of a rubbish and uneven service.
HOW is CrossCity going to get to Parkway?
Cross Country route or Cotswold Line?
It will be a lot lot lot lot lot cheaper to deal with parking (& other issues) at Shrub Hill than to get CrossCity to Parkway, whichever route you take.
The Cardiff-Nottinghams already stop at University & New Street, so already connect with the CrossCity.
VT 390
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Is there a reason why they will stop more frequently in one direction to the other?
The Planner
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Ironically, the Cross City extension to Bromsgrove causes the problems.
ForTheLoveOf
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I think you'd have to ask @The Planner to be sure, but it'll effectively be to do with the amount of slack in the timetable so as to allow for the train to present itself to key junctions at the right time - i.e. how the calls can be built into the timetable without rewriting everything else (bearing in mind that a lot of things are very intertwined, e.g. CrossCountry's Voyager services can't be moved around substantially as then they might lose their path north of Birmingham or south of Bristol, and so on). The CrossCity line from Barnt Green northwards is itself very busy, at 10tph with 6tph all-stops, so that doesn't exactly help. This all bunches up north of King's Norton, where it becomes two-track.
Not to mention the dualling of the Worcester SLR which will mean a much easier journey from the south than fighting your way into the city.
Except they are - its already in the new timetable. And who exactly doesn’t want them to stop? XC, passengers, NR, other TOCs/FOCs? This sentence doesn’t make sense.
Well we all know CrossCity can't get beyond Bromsgrove at the moment. It was speculating what could happen if there was sufficient traffic in commuters.
What stopping at both stations in the new timetable?
The TOCs are not thrilled otherwise more trains would be stopping. As a passenger from Cardiff to Derby or Gloucester to Nottingham, I wouldn't want my train stopping at so many blades of grass.
There is plenty of rail traffic in the shape of commuters from Worcester into Birmingham, with them accounting for a large share of the 3 million passengers a year using Foregate Street and Shrub Hill.
Far better to ensure that they remain on improved services from those stations, than we end up in a situation where investment and passengers are all sucked out to Parkway and even more years go by with nothing being done to sort out the appalling legacy of the 1971 BR rationalisation scheme in the city. There will always be limitations due to where the existing stations are located and access to them, but the Shrub Hill area redevelopment is likely to include more station parking and, as far as is possible, improved access to the area generally.
More trains would be stopping at Worcestershire Parkway if they could be timetabled to do so - others have pointed out the issues in that regard - and if there was capacity to handle more passengers on any of XC's trains, not just the Cardiff services.
How many people do you think actually go all the way from the East Midlands to Cardiff and vice versa? The trains pretty much empty out and refill in both directions at Birmingham New Street - always have and always will.
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You're the one speculating about extending the CrossCity south of Bromsgrove, so how would you do it?
Well at the other end there are proposals to extend from Lichfield to Burton with new bay platforms there or even Derby and that means electrification. Much further than Parkway. Who would have thought that?
What is the passive provision for a later Westbound platform? Will it have to go up and down over the public footpath (did the planners forget it - it’s footbridge looks a clumsy inconsistent design afterthought ??) then under the spare bridge span then up to a new platform?
Seems a bit convoluted.
Seems a bit convoluted.
The Planner
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Thats still fag packet territory and it doesnt confirm electrifcation to Burton or Derby either, you assume that a diesel or even bi-mode by that point wouldnt run it. An all station stopper to Burton wouldnt be attractive either, people would still use XC.
Ah, your a politician
Why not expand on your speculating about CrossCity extending to Parkway?
Is the public footpath still there, or have they diverted it along Woodbury Lane to get rid of 2 track crossings?
I can't see a busier pedestrian route being allowed trackside, there's also no way down there from the central building, the lifts back onto that space.
Presumably NR will also want to keep it for potential future 3rd tracking.
At what point would a westbound platform be needed on the Cotswold line, as in how many trains per hour?
A quick look at the timetables suggests that 12 1/2 mins are allocated for trains to travel between Norton Jct and Evesham. That would imply that 2tph in each direction is possible at a push, leaving little margin for delay however and no room for any freight paths etc.
I’m not sure why you keep referring to triple-tracking of the low level XC route. There is unlikely to ever be demand for more than two tracks on that stretch of line. The line speed is mainly 90mph (some 100) between Abbotswood Jct and Stoke Works Jct so it’s not like there’s a significant speed differential and frequency that would require a third track to accommodate more trains. I would expect future impreovements to look at signalling headways and closure of the multiple level crossings. Besides, the line via Worcester itself could feasibly take more services following a remodelling of the area, which is sorely needed as it currently acts as an operational tourniquet for services.
I’m not sure why you keep referring to triple-tracking of the low level XC route. There is unlikely to ever be demand for more than two tracks on that stretch of line. The line speed is mainly 90mph (some 100) between Abbotswood Jct and Stoke Works Jct so it’s not like there’s a significant speed differential and frequency that would require a third track to accommodate more trains. I would expect future impreovements to look at signalling headways and closure of the multiple level crossings. Besides, the line via Worcester itself could feasibly take more services following a remodelling of the area, which is sorely needed as it currently acts as an operational tourniquet for services.
The Planner
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2tph in each direction would mean a line occupation of 50 minutes. You ain't doing 2tph on a section of that length with that.
Closing the level crossings is what will allow you to increase the speed. They are what caused the problems with the original line speed scheme. Pretty sure its on a 4 minute headway anyway so a resignalling is unlikely to drop that to 3 as it isn't required.
Yes, I expected as much – what’s the maximum occupation period percentage that is normally accepted for single track lines; is it influenced by the section length?
If I recall the Worcestershire Council long term plan has an aspirational 2tph, so it’d be interesting to see what ideas are suggested to resolve the current limitation.
The Planner
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People get twitchy if its over 75-80% but it depends on a number of factors, such as length of section, signalling etc.. normally it is 3 minutes for single line reoccupation margin so Evesham to Norton can't work anyway as you don't have enough minutes.
Minilad
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Not that it means much in the grand scheme of things but its 100 all the way once you come off the 90 at Abbotswood Jct
The Cotswold Line Taskforce has been working on proposals for future improvements and extra services and the nub of it is more double track from Norton Junction to Pershore (and at the Oxford end of the line).
There is some discussion and a link to the slides from a presentation about rail development in Worcestershire given to the Worcestershire Local Enterprise Partnership in March in this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...orth-cotswold-line.169793/page-3#post-4004715
Someone in this thread speculated/suggested multiple times about the CrossCity extending to Parkway from Bromsgrove. Would there be the capacity for that? Or if more not-via Shrub Hill trains stopped at Parkway?
West Midlands & Chilterns Route Study said:Barnt Green to Kings Norton capability
Indicative service level analysis of the section between Barnt Green and Kings Norton has shown that the 2043 reduced specification is not sustainable on the current infrastructure. The key finding of the analysis is that, in order to accommodate this level of service, separation of flows will be required. There are a number of potential solutions proposed (see Figure 3.5),
Proposed Interventions; 1. Third track between Bromsgrove and Barnt Green.
Or is it more likely that any 'local' services at Parkway are on the Chiltern line, eg. extending Shrub Hill terminators to Parkway, or even Evesham.
moggie
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I'll happily put my lottery jackpot winnings for this week that we'll see wires to Worcester and beyond long before you ever see a third track between Bromsgrove and Barnt Green. Some people need to get out from behind their computer screen a bit more!
JackJones125
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Reading this forum on Worcester Parkway, the general consensus seems to be that the station isn’t going to be utilised to its potential. Whilst electrification and extension of the Cross-City line into a new bay platform at Parkway sounds like a great solution in theory, finances and timetabling are simply always going to be a massive problem.
The goal of the station is to provide 'Cross-Country services' for Worcester, so more services into Birmingham (that Cross-City would provide) isn't the only goal - rather the ability to travel the whole country without needing to change trains is the purpose of the station. The Voyagers will provide this when they call there eventually. The fact that the Turbostars are calling at the station is already an improvement for Worcester, and yes diverting them to call at Shrub Hill would have been ‘easier’ but I’m sure CrossCountry have a valid reason for not doing this…as the 2008 withdrawal of these services showed. It’s going to improve in phases, you can’t just expect instant results. In terms of greater service pattern, this will be improved once the Cotswold Line is eventually doubled and the Voyagers begin to call at the station. Understandable that the people of Worcester want them now, and it’s easy to feel like the city is forgotten about when we have modern Japanese high-speed trains running on track with wooden sleepers and semaphores still being the main signalling system. However, these things cost a ton of money to improve and will…hopefully…eventually change.
If we’re talking hypothetical solutions, past and future:
Electrify and extend the Cross-City line to Parkway into a bay platform. Lay double track into a second platform at Parkway High Level on the London-end and run a non-stop Paddington-Parkway high speed service calling at Oxford and Reading. Ask WMT or GWR to provide a Kidderminster/Malvern - Parkway - Evesham ‘local service’. Extend Transport for Wales’ Maesteg-Cheltenham to Shrub Hill or Parkway to provide more services south and review the New Street - Worcester services with the Shrub Hill terminators instead finishing at Parkway to provide more services north. Recent proposals to split the Turbostar services with regional operators (GWR/TfW Cardiff-Birmingham calling at the usual stations plus Parkway, then EMT Birmingham-Nottingham) could also be an answer.
All these are great ideas, but they just won’t happen in the near future as it means money money money. A logical solution that I can think of off the top of my head, is that the Shrub Hill terminators should be extended to Parkway High Level as this will provide an extra few services around Worcester. Additionally, West Midlands Trains currently operate a Friday-only Birmingham-Gloucester service via Shrub Hill at the dead of night (1V30/2G30) - this type of service could be an easy solution if the stock becomes available by running a New Street - Parkway LL - Cheltenham - Gloucester service. However, once again, the main goal is for the station to be added to the Cross-Country network as a ‘big station’ for a city.
I do like what Parkway is bringing to the city of Worcester, I just feel that the way it has been hyped by the County Council and local newspapers are the main problems that has made Parkway look unsuccessful before it’s even opened.
The goal of the station is to provide 'Cross-Country services' for Worcester, so more services into Birmingham (that Cross-City would provide) isn't the only goal - rather the ability to travel the whole country without needing to change trains is the purpose of the station. The Voyagers will provide this when they call there eventually. The fact that the Turbostars are calling at the station is already an improvement for Worcester, and yes diverting them to call at Shrub Hill would have been ‘easier’ but I’m sure CrossCountry have a valid reason for not doing this…as the 2008 withdrawal of these services showed. It’s going to improve in phases, you can’t just expect instant results. In terms of greater service pattern, this will be improved once the Cotswold Line is eventually doubled and the Voyagers begin to call at the station. Understandable that the people of Worcester want them now, and it’s easy to feel like the city is forgotten about when we have modern Japanese high-speed trains running on track with wooden sleepers and semaphores still being the main signalling system. However, these things cost a ton of money to improve and will…hopefully…eventually change.
If we’re talking hypothetical solutions, past and future:
Electrify and extend the Cross-City line to Parkway into a bay platform. Lay double track into a second platform at Parkway High Level on the London-end and run a non-stop Paddington-Parkway high speed service calling at Oxford and Reading. Ask WMT or GWR to provide a Kidderminster/Malvern - Parkway - Evesham ‘local service’. Extend Transport for Wales’ Maesteg-Cheltenham to Shrub Hill or Parkway to provide more services south and review the New Street - Worcester services with the Shrub Hill terminators instead finishing at Parkway to provide more services north. Recent proposals to split the Turbostar services with regional operators (GWR/TfW Cardiff-Birmingham calling at the usual stations plus Parkway, then EMT Birmingham-Nottingham) could also be an answer.
All these are great ideas, but they just won’t happen in the near future as it means money money money. A logical solution that I can think of off the top of my head, is that the Shrub Hill terminators should be extended to Parkway High Level as this will provide an extra few services around Worcester. Additionally, West Midlands Trains currently operate a Friday-only Birmingham-Gloucester service via Shrub Hill at the dead of night (1V30/2G30) - this type of service could be an easy solution if the stock becomes available by running a New Street - Parkway LL - Cheltenham - Gloucester service. However, once again, the main goal is for the station to be added to the Cross-Country network as a ‘big station’ for a city.
I do like what Parkway is bringing to the city of Worcester, I just feel that the way it has been hyped by the County Council and local newspapers are the main problems that has made Parkway look unsuccessful before it’s even opened.
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