Part of WCML to be closed Acton Grange Junction engineering work

The Planner · 13 May 2019

greyman42 said:
If someone is travelling from Glasgow to Manchester, what is the reason for making them change at Lancaster/Preston/Wigan, when the train is actually stopping at Manchester? I understand Manchester is a pick up only, but why?

Mitigates against overloading P13 and 14.

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Freightmaster · 13 May 2019

Mathew S said:
Ah well, can't be helped I suppose.
Will this mean additional freights running through Piccadilly 13/14? Or has someone managed to find paths through Victoria (in which case, whoever did deserves some kind of train planning medal)?

Both routes (Picc and Vic) are being used - Piccadilly for intermodal /mail workings.
and Victoria for most other services.

There is nothing 'in the system' yet for the flask trains between Sellafield and Crewe;
is Manchester still a "nuclear free city" these days?? o_O

MARK

Glenn1969 · 13 May 2019

There is nothing on RTT showing a diversion for Caledonian Sleeper either

Bald Rick · 13 May 2019

Glenn1969 said:
There is nothing on RTT showing a diversion for Caledonian Sleeper either

There is.
Via Piccadilly and Wigan.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G65072/2019/07/23/advanced

Glenn1969 · 13 May 2019

Understood. I checked it Southbound for 2 of the dates in August

hwl · 13 May 2019

Freightmaster said:
Both routes (Picc and Vic) are being used - Piccadilly for intermodal /mail workings.
and Victoria for most other services.

There is nothing 'in the system' yet for the flask trains between Sellafield and Crewe;
is Manchester still a "nuclear free city" these days??

MARK

It never stopped the Dungeness flasks going through nuclear free Lambeth back in the day...

Mag_seven · 13 May 2019

Class 170101 said:
I was more wondering why the Glasgow / Edinburgh services that are terminating at Preston weren't running to Warrington Bank Quay and bussing from there to Crewe

These services have only a circa 35 min turnaround at Preston. If you were to extend to Warrington Bank Quay you would need more train sets out and more train crew which they may not have. There may not be adequate turnaround facilities at Warrington anyway depending on where the possession limits are and what other services are terminating there.

The Planner · 14 May 2019

Freightmaster said:
Both routes (Picc and Vic) are being used - Piccadilly for intermodal /mail workings.
and Victoria for most other services.

There is nothing 'in the system' yet for the flask trains between Sellafield and Crewe;
is Manchester still a "nuclear free city" these days??

MARK

Goes through the work site using single line working from what Ive heard, the scheme apparently had to allow a short window to do that as Manchester is nuclear free as you state.

Mathew S · 14 May 2019

The Planner said:
Mitigates against overloading P13 and 14.

And avoids the services being used by commuters from Preston and Wigan to Manchester (like me, for example).
Remember there's still the direct TPE services between Glasgow and Manchester which should be largely unaffected by all this.

Mathew S · 14 May 2019

The Planner said:
Goes through the work site using single line working from what Ive heard, the scheme apparently had to allow a short window to do that as Manchester is nuclear free as you state.

Interesting. Thank you both for the info.

Bevan Price · 14 May 2019

The Planner said:
Goes through the work site using single line working from what Ive heard, the scheme apparently had to allow a short window to do that as Manchester is nuclear free as you state.

Does "nuclear free" Manchester have any legal status, or is it just a "wish" expressed by the local council(s) ? I find it hard to believe that any local council can veto anything that might use railways through "their" areas.

Pete_uk · 15 May 2019

Where do people go for X-rays then?

Do they not eat Bananas?

Anyway, off topic!

The Planner · 15 May 2019

Bevan Price said:
Does "nuclear free" Manchester have any legal status, or is it just a "wish" expressed by the local council(s) ? I find it hard to believe that any local council can veto anything that might use railways through "their" areas.

No idea, depends on how political and the appetite to argue with TfGM and the councils I suppose.

LNW-GW Joint · 15 May 2019

Not reversing the nuclear trains in Liverpool then?
I can imagine the spats between Liverpool and Manchester if that were to happen.
The WCML passes through parts of GM and Merseyside anyway.

adrock1976 · 15 May 2019

Bevan Price said:
Does "nuclear free" Manchester have any legal status, or is it just a "wish" expressed by the local council(s) ? I find it hard to believe that any local council can veto anything that might use railways through "their" areas.

I believe there may be something in international law regarding this, possibly on the United Nations website.

I'll have a look and see what turns up.

Also, I recall that the whole of the Southern Hemisphere is a Nuclear Free Zone.

hwl · 15 May 2019

adrock1976 said:
I believe there may be something in international law regarding this, possibly on the United Nations website.

I'll have a look and see what turns up.

Also, I recall that the whole of the Southern Hemisphere is a Nuclear Free Zone.

Better not to mention that the UK always has a sub on duty around the Falklands...

Elecman · 15 May 2019

And the fact that the University and hospitals hold fissile material, and I can well imagine there are industrial measuring equipment that uses radioactive sources

mcmad · 15 May 2019

and a lot of smoke detectors

furnessvale · 16 May 2019

The Planner said:
Goes through the work site using single line working from what Ive heard, the scheme apparently had to allow a short window to do that as Manchester is nuclear free as you state.

That is a slippery slope to go down, giving way to non legal political blackmail. What will happen when Manchester sets is face against biomass as being not really renewable. Also, I wonder if they have thought police stationed on all the motorways approaching the city to check HGVs for content?

Joseph_Locke · 17 May 2019

furnessvale said:
That is a slippery slope to go down, giving way to non legal political blackmail. What will happen when Manchester sets is face against biomass as being not really renewable. Also, I wonder if they have thought police stationed on all the motorways approaching the city to check HGVs for content?

It would only detect Rutherford's old lab at the Uni and the small reactor they have in the Physics Dept. ...

swt_passenger · 17 May 2019

Bevan Price said:
Does "nuclear free" Manchester have any legal status, or is it just a "wish" expressed by the local council(s) ? I find it hard to believe that any local council can veto anything that might use railways through "their" areas.

Back in the day, I recall Southampton declared a nuclear free zone, but the RN and others still berthed nuclear powered submarines in the docks using some over-riding authority.

furnessvale · 17 May 2019

swt_passenger said:
Back in the day, I recall Southampton declared a nuclear free zone, but the RN and others still berthed nuclear powered submarines in the docks using some over-riding authority.

As far as I am aware there is no need for any over-riding authority. The whole "nuclear free zone" idea is a nonsense invented by anti nuclear politicians and has no legal significance.

mpb56125 · 19 May 2019

When they had a blockade in October 1990 the Manchester to North Wales services got diverted via Liverpool Lime Street and Halton Curve.
https://mark5812.smugmug.com/UKpicturesclassorder/Class-150/i-GGBbJVM

Mark

Class 170101 · 20 May 2019

Mathew S said:
Ah well, can't be helped I suppose.
Will this mean additional freights running through Piccadilly 13/14? Or has someone managed to find paths through Victoria (in which case, whoever did deserves some kind of train planning medal)?

Isn't there one less passenger path than normal with the loss of the TfW service between Chester and Manchester Piccadilly / Manchester Airport. Diverted freights seem to be in this slot.

Mathew S · 20 May 2019

Class 170101 said:
Isn't there one less passenger path than normal with the loss of the TfW service between Chester and Manchester Piccadilly / Manchester Airport. Diverted freights seem to be in this slot.

Yeah. There's also the diverted VTWC service though, so still more being squeezed through than normal, I think. Makes sense to use an existing path, though, that I'll concede.

PHILIPE · 20 Jul 2019

Network Rail have put out a map giving the impression that Helsby and Frodsham are closed and this has been leading to lot of doubts about the Chester to Liverpool Lime St service operating. The Map can be seen in Post #1. NT and TFW services between Chester towards Leeds and Manchester Picc/Airport are cancelled or curtailed and are not therefore passing through Helsby and Frodsham so it would appear that Network Rail have published this overlooking the new TFW service which is booked to call at these station and is still able to run via the Halton Curve.

Bikeman78 · 20 Jul 2019

The Planner said:
No paths at Mickle Trafford, and moving the Northern slots means rewrite of Stockport to Picc which no TOC would agree to.

Hopefully Northern will strengthen their Chester to Manchester trains. They'll be quite popular during the block.

Harbornite · 21 Jul 2019

Did a London to Glasgow return yesterday, no chaos or anything.

Harbornite · 21 Jul 2019

The Planner said:
No problem, but it riles me (and a lot of others who work hard in the industry on here) when people trot out the normal "It happened under BR", "why haven't they looked at this" "Don't care about the passengers" "the line isn't full" when these sort of jobs have been worked on by NR and the TOC/FOCs in collaboration for many many months from getting the access agreed to the end product. Those things people suggest have been looked at and discarded for often very good reasons. It is NEVER going to be perfect and someone somewhere is going to be inconvenienced.

Buses are down to the operators and they are basically sub contracted out so that is something they need to improve on. Diversionary routes have been done to death and you cannot force a TOC to use them.

Indeed. As an aside, BR were getting people to use replacement buses between Coventry and Rugby back in 1963!

Rail Ranger · 21 Jul 2019

For some reason Transport for Wales are not diverting their Chester to Piccadilly service via the Mid Cheshire Line today (when surely paths are available) The Northern service via Northwich has been strengthened to 4 coaches yesterday and today. Piccadilly have been making anouncements for several weeks about work "on the West Coast main line" without specifying that the work is just south of Warrington (i.e. not directly affecting Manchester-London). Also there is a large display on the main departure indicator at Piccadilly headed "Acton Grange Works" which again does not specify where the work actually is. 98% of passengers will have no idea where Acton Grange is.

Part of WCML to be closed Acton Grange Junction engineering work

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