I imagine most passengers don't see it that way and want a pair of modern 185s, rather than a pair of older 156s. Average Joe has no idea how many of each type of train were built so wouldn't be aware that the only way of getting doubled up 185s on North West routes would involve a downgrading of cross-Pennine services.
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Future potential Northern connect services
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I imagine most passengers don't see it that way and want a pair of modern 185s, rather than a pair of older 156s. Average Joe has no idea how many of each type of train were built so wouldn't be aware that the only way of getting doubled up 185s on North West routes would involve a downgrading of cross-Pennine services.
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anti-pacer
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Can someone please clarify the amount of new stock Northern are getting, in terms of both number of trains and carriages?
I'm confused.
I'm confused.
WatcherZero
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25x2 Class 195
30x3 Class 195/1
31x3 Class 331
12x4 Class 331/1
18x2 Unordered DMU possibly cascaded 170
51 Cascaded Sprinters
releasing All other EMU except 10x4 319
Releasing 102 Pacers containing 214 carriages
Also releasing some short term hires
30x3 Class 195/1
31x3 Class 331
12x4 Class 331/1
18x2 Unordered DMU possibly cascaded 170
51 Cascaded Sprinters
releasing All other EMU except 10x4 319
Releasing 102 Pacers containing 214 carriages
Also releasing some short term hires
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anti-pacer
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Thanks for this.
43096
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I assume the "cascaded Sprinters" is shorthand for Sprinters and Turbostars?
Also incoming (against the franchise start position) are 4x4 319 and 8x4 319 (to become Flex)
Going are:
79x2 142
13x2 144
10x3 144
18x1 153
3x4 321
5x4 322
17x3 323
2x4 LHCS
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Isn't it more like 24x 319s to stay with Northern in the current plan?
Also the 333s are not going anywhere!
WatcherZero
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Plan was originally start with 20, surge by 12 while awaiting new build rolling stock then release down to 10. Serving Liverpool-Wigan/Blackpool
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Are you talking about post-2025 plans? The franchise agreement shows a lease was agreed for 32 x 319s with 5 only being leased until 2020 and the other 27 until 2025. Unless there's a plan for additional 331s to be procured or additional 769 conversions then 10 x 319s won't be enough. Don't forget around 16 of the 3 car 331s are going to Yorkshire.
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anti-pacer
Established Member
With the 16 heading over here in 3 car formation, am I correct in assuming they are going to run as 8 x 6 car sets, or am I way off?
It's not confirmed the exact number is 16. However, the 321s and 322s are going and the intention is for the 321/322 diagrams to become 333 diagrams and the busiest 333 diagrams to become 6 car 331s.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
I wouldn't rule out some of the quieter diagrams (counter-flow peak journeys, particularly on the Bradford-Skipton axis) being a single 3-car 331.
That would be some feat as a pair of pacers has less capacity than a 185
It's not baffling at all when some peak services on the route have gone from a 6 car 185 to a 4 car 156. A 4 car 156 struggles hugely on shoulder peak services because there is almost no space to stand in.
The route has also had it's catering removed. First Class is now available on just a handful of trains, and it was reasonably well used when it was available on all of them.
How much potential is there for linespeed increases Newcastle to Carlisle? Considering the A69 dualling has been canned on cost grounds, wonder if this would be a more economical way to improve connections especially with 2tph coming soon. It's only around 60 miles. A 1 hour fast service would be very good (maybe calling at Hexham and Metrocentre only).
anti-pacer
Established Member
How busy is that corridor? Carlisle, whilst being a city the size of a fairly big town, is surrounded by not a lot else, so is there the demand for such a service?
I have however been on that route and it was busy. This was a Friday afternoon in fairness.
If the busiest section of the line is between Sheffield and Manchester, would it not be "economics of the madhouse" for any toc to bypass Sheffield Midland on this route?
And what will this do to stem overcrowding between Sheffield and Manchester?
It's not advertised as such, but I've used it for getting from Chorley (nr Preston) to Newcastle.
Despite the Carlisle-Newcastle leg being a 142 stopping at every gatepost, it's only about 10 mins slower than the advertised route via Manchester & York.
You're also guaranteed a seat, which would be a miracle via Manc at most times of day.
If you read the discussion upthread around that (3 year old) post you quoted, the idea was to remove NW-East Midlands traffic from NW-Sheffield trains, thus reducing overcrowding on Sheffield trains by removing a sizeable chunk of passengers who'd take this new faster Nottingham-Manchester service instead.
Seemingly so, given they are going to 2tph Newcastle-Carlisle (plus 1tph to Hexham) before doing the full Carlisle-Newcastle-Middlesbrough Northern Connect service.
It would free up capacity on the Sheffield line for actual Sheffield passengers.
Rather than Chesterfield though, would, Nottingham-Derby-Stoke-Manchester be a better route - Derby-Stoke currently suffering from short, overcrowded trains, I believe?
So 3tph Hexham to Newcastle? Quite a good service! Will there still be Metro Centre shuttles/terminators, or are they being extended?
swt_passenger
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Most of the day all services run through, see link below. There’s a few terminators in the evening.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/MCE/2019/05/20/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
This resurrected 3 year old thread is probably the wrong place to discuss next weeks changes, there’s a far more current thread about Northern’s May changes here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-timetable-changes-may-2019.176826/page-21
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