The Decline In Information Quality

Deepgreen · 16 May 2019

The quality of information continues to decline, with more and more basic written messages' errors simply going unchecked, even those which are permanently programmed-in, rather than hasty urgent messages. Some examples from the last week or so on my travels are attached. It's astounding how little seems to be checked these days before being put into the public domain. The two dot matrix indicators are at Clapham Junction, showing LO services. The internal indicator is on a class 707. All inputs are provided by SWR.

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thenorthern · 16 May 2019

At least they were correct, earlier today I was at Blake Street at 14:30 but the board said 16:23.

alxndr · 16 May 2019

I'm not sure whether it's just an issue affecting me, but the attached images are very small and I can't quite make out the exact wording.

Deepgreen · 16 May 2019

thenorthern said:
At least they were correct, earlier today I was at Blake Street at 14:30 but the board said 16:23.

Sorry, what were correct? They all show spelling errors on station names.

Bertie the bus · 16 May 2019

I don't think those Clapham Junction ones are spelling mistakes. It looks like station names are limited to max 16 characters and so they are just abbreviated.

Bletchleyite · 16 May 2019

Deepgreen said:
Sorry, what were correct? They all show spelling errors on station names.

They aren't errors, they are abbreviations. Looks a bit rubbish but not wrong.

That said, I agree with you in general that the standard of proofing of public information as a whole has reduced.

Peter Mugridge · 17 May 2019

alxndr said:
I'm not sure whether it's just an issue affecting me, but the attached images are very small and I can't quite make out the exact wording.

They are, but they're right size on the duplicate thread!

A Challenge · 17 May 2019

The Horsham one is definitely wrong, but I notice on the Shoredtch Hgh Street one the previous station was 'Whitechapel und', on an Overground train!

306024 · 17 May 2019

Ah Whitechapel, where the Overground passes underneath the Underground (good quiz question). With Crossrail underneath both.

DarloRich · 17 May 2019

Bertie the bus said:
I don't think those Clapham Junction ones are spelling mistakes. It looks like station names are limited to max 16 characters and so they are just abbreviated.

Exactly. There is no reduction in the quality of information being provided via such an abbreviation and it is clear what message is being communicated.

(Although being a dyslexic there is little point asking me about spelling - is Horsham spelt wrong? )

Bletchleyite said:
They aren't errors, they are abbreviations. Looks a bit rubbish but not wrong.

That said, I agree with you in general that the standard of proofing of public information as a whole has reduced.

Agreed on both points.

Deepgreen · 17 May 2019

Bletchleyite said:
They aren't errors, they are abbreviations. Looks a bit rubbish but not wrong.

That said, I agree with you in general that the standard of proofing of public information as a whole has reduced.

They aren't abbreviations, as "Peckham" is spelt correctly a little further along on the same message, as is "High" ("Hgh" is not an abbreviation here) and "Shoredtch" leaves out only the 'i' - again, not an abbreviation.

I've asked the Mods. to remove the duplicate thread and leave the one with the larger photos.

Bertie the bus said:
I don't think those Clapham Junction ones are spelling mistakes. It looks like station names are limited to max 16 characters and so they are just abbreviated.

If that were true, it would be a ridiculous limitation and handled very badly. SWR has also admitted to me that they are errors! Here are two more, from Southern. Again, network-wide planned messages.

swt_passenger · 17 May 2019

DarloRich said:
(Although being a dyslexic there is little point asking me about spelling - is Horsham spelt wrong? ).

No, but Warham should be Warnham. That seems to be the only real error.

I’m amazed that Deepgreen hasn’t seen abbreviations on 3 line displays before though?

Lytham Local · 17 May 2019

No. Given the limited space that is available on these displays and at times the short time ad-hoc notices have to be changed manually, it's only human nature that they may be errors on them. Couple this to the usage of sites such as RTT and Traksy then the information we have these days is far better than we had say 5 years ago.

However....

Someone at Preston station needs to change the automatic tannoy to pronounce Euxton Balshaw Lane and Salwick correctly.

Bletchleyite · 17 May 2019

Deepgreen said:
They aren't abbreviations, as "Peckham" is spelt correctly a little further along on the same message, as is "High" ("Hgh" is not an abbreviation here) and "Shoredtch" leaves out only the 'i' - again, not an abbreviation.

They absolutely are.

Queens Rd Peckhm = 16 chars
Shoredtch Hgh St = 16 chars

This is not a coincidence.

If that were true, it would be a ridiculous limitation and handled very badly.

It is a genuine limitation and it isn't handled badly, you can still tell what it means. Just because some clueless member of customer services thinks it's an error doesn't mean it is. Though it is 2019 and I'd expect new PIS systems to fix it by allowing an adequate number of characters.

The additional ones you posted in that post appear to be poor proofing, though.

Bletchleyite · 17 May 2019

Lytham Local said:
Someone at Preston station needs to change the automatic tannoy to pronounce Euxton Balshaw Lane and Salwick correctly.

ATOS Annie is terrible at Welsh place names too. Though I suppose you could argue that "Landudno" is the pronunciation one would expect in Manchester or Liverpool.

A Challenge · 17 May 2019

swt_passenger said:
No, but Warham should be Warnham. That seems to be the only real error.

There is also the matter of SWR not running to Horsham in normal service, but that may be on diversion, is it?

DarloRich · 17 May 2019

Deepgreen said:
They aren't abbreviations, as "Peckham" is spelt correctly a little further along on the same message, as is "High" ("Hgh" is not an abbreviation here) and "Shoredtch" leaves out only the 'i' - again, not an abbreviation.

they are abbreviations! I cant believe the level of angst this is creating!

tsr · 17 May 2019

A Challenge said:
There is also the matter of SWR not running to Horsham in normal service, but that may be on diversion, is it?

They never run to Horsham any more. Unless I’m very much mistaken, this is a list of connecting locations shown on approach to Dorking.

swt_passenger · 17 May 2019

Please delete, answered by tsr.

Y Ddraig Coch · 17 May 2019

I was at Llandudno Junction the other day waiting for a 4 car 158 that splits there.

Information screens scrolling - "Front 2 Coaches Empty to Depot, rear 2 coaches stations to Holyhead"

Despite this when the train approaches over the tannoy comes "next train to arrive on platform 3 will split here, Front 2 coaches only will go forward to stations to Holyhead"

Queue lots of people running round in circles like headless chickens not sure what to do.

I take it the screens can't be changed locally? This has happened there more than once.

PHILIPE · 17 May 2019

A couple of issues are the ones where a late running train disappears from the screens while still en route and the other where it just says "Delayed" without any hint as to whether it will be 3 minutes or 3 hours. In the case of the latter passengers require some sort of information whether it is definite or not..

thejuggler · 17 May 2019

The scrolling 4 line systems are being used for far more than they were ever designed to. Too much info!

One line for the next service, next line for the calling points of next service, last lines for a clock. Easy.

When I'm catching a service the only thing I need to know is if it stops at my station. I don't need a diagram showing many carriages it has, I don't need warnings about buying a ticket, I don't even need to know the arrival times at each of the stations it calls at.

sheff1 · 17 May 2019

A train I was on the other day was about to call at "Krikstall Forge" according to the display. Another train was going to have the rear 4 carriages detached at Newcastle - interesting when its' total length was 4 carriages.

Bertie the bus · 17 May 2019

PHILIPE said:
where it just says "Delayed" without any hint as to whether it will be 3 minutes or 3 hours. In the case of the latter passengers require some sort of information whether it is definite or not..

That tends to be when the delay is occurring now and it has been ongoing for more than a preset amount of time. It’s very common in Northernland. If a train has not departed its origin station, for example, then further down the line it will show as 1 min late, then 2 mins late, then 3 mins late and if over 3 mins late just delayed. When it finally departs the real delay is shown. Not great but it is better than what PIS systems used to show in those circumstances which was just ‘on time’ even several minutes after the train was due.

gnolife · 18 May 2019

Y Ddraig Coch said:
I was at Llandudno Junction the other day waiting for a 4 car 158 that splits there.

Information screens scrolling - "Front 2 Coaches Empty to Depot, rear 2 coaches stations to Holyhead"

Despite this when the train approaches over the tannoy comes "next train to arrive on platform 3 will split here, Front 2 coaches only will go forward to stations to Holyhead"

Queue lots of people running round in circles like headless chickens not sure what to do.

I take it the screens can't be changed locally? This has happened there more than once.

I'm assuming that this case is a service from Shrewsbury (or beyond), which had reversed at Chester?

Parallel · 18 May 2019

gnolife said:
I'm assuming that this case is a service from Shrewsbury (or beyond), which had reversed at Chester?

Indeed, happens at Cardiff too.

GWR’s usually says ‘Train Splits Here’ so it’d say something like ‘Weymouth & Train Splits Here’

Deepgreen · 18 May 2019

A Challenge said:
There is also the matter of SWR not running to Horsham in normal service, but that may be on diversion, is it?

No. It's a Dorking train and the message advises changing there for stations to Horsham.

Deepgreen · 18 May 2019

Bletchleyite said:
They absolutely are.

Queens Rd Peckhm = 16 chars
Shoredtch Hgh St = 16 chars

This is not a coincidence.

It is a genuine limitation and it isn't handled badly, you can still tell what it means. Just because some clueless member of customer services thinks it's an error doesn't mean it is. Though it is 2019 and I'd expect new PIS systems to fix it by allowing an adequate number of characters.

The additional ones you posted in that post appear to be poor proofing, though.

Two 16 character names does not prove a lack of coincidence! I would have expected new and old PIS equipment to be able to show full names. Are we really now so conditioned by poor writing/communication standards that as long as "you can still tell what it means", that's OK? Owel thaz alrite then.

Bertie the bus · 18 May 2019

Deepgreen said:
Two 16 character names does not prove a lack of coincidence!

It's a pretty big clue that is the case unless you think the people involved have some kind of affliction where they can spell station names of 16 characters or less correctly but not for any over 16 characters.

yorkie · 18 May 2019

Deepgreen said:
Two 16 character names does not prove a lack of coincidence! I would have expected new and old PIS equipment to be able to show full names. Are we really now so conditioned by poor writing/communication standards that as long as "you can still tell what it means", that's OK? Owel thaz alrite then.

The names of stations in certain systems/contexts is limited to 16 characters, whether we like it or not.

The Decline In Information Quality

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