Gangways blocked at stations by catering trolley

Jozhua · 18 May 2019

Hi all!

Just wondering what your thoughts are on a couple of recent experiences of mine on the train. By the way, this is in no way directed in a negative way to the staff, I understand they have a job to do, however I am just raising difficulties I have had trying to alight services!

Firstly, I was on a HST from Sheffield to London St Pancras, planning to alight at Long Eaton. My reserved seat was at the back of the train. Usually, they make an announcement at Derby explaining which carriages will be stationed, however this announcement was left much later. Once we neared Long Eaton and I found out this information, the gangway was blocked by a catering trolley, meaning me and other fellow passengers only just alighted on time.

Another time, my train was nearing Chesterfield and my luggage was at the other end of the carriage. When I got up to get the luggage, the trolley was blocking my path and although she did move it up the train for me, it was only just in time, the doors were closing and I had to swing my case into the doorway to prevent it from shutting so I could get out!

Has anyone had any other experiences like this? I understand the staff have jobs to do but on routes with stops close together, blocking the isle can make things difficult for customers trying to alight or board the train. If anyone works, has experience or knows someone in onboard catering, what is your opinion on this and what difficulties do you face trying to provide a service on different routes?

RailUK Forums

Jonfun · 18 May 2019

Getting caught mid-carriage at a station is best avoided, but occasionally inevitable. You might think you have time to get through the carriage, but actually everybody wants to buy something, or you have someone with a complicated enquiry. Or perhaps the staff member on that day was new so wasn't familiar with the route they were working. Unlike Guards and Drivers, catering grades don't normally get trained on route knowledge before going out so it's left to be aquired on the job.

Deafdoggie · 18 May 2019

Whilst trying to avoid being caught mid carriage at a station is undesirable, it’s always going to be unavoidable at times.
When my station is next I always check to see if the catering trolly is making an appearance, even moreso if I have to head in one direction for any reason.

F Great Eastern · 18 May 2019

Couple of occasions.

Was getting on a train at Haymarket and the train was changed platform right at the last moment. Scotrail staff at the time said the train would be held to allow people to change platform and make the train as the train was late and the change wasn't announced on screens or apps literally until it pulled into the station.

Guy got out the train and shouted at everyone to get on nearest door as the train will not wait, few people got left behind as they were still making the journey from the other side of Haymarket, I got on nearest carriage and I had to go past the buffet which had a trolley in the middle of the aisle. I asked the attendant if I could come by, along with a few others who did the same as me, she told me that no, you will have to wait until Waverley and that if I learn to read, I might get on the correct carriage the next time.

Got to Waverley and I asked past and she refused to let me past and told me to get off the train and change carriage and to ask another passenger who can read if I need help. Few people then pushed past the trolley and she then went ballistic saying that now East Coast is in public ownership the staff are the important ones, not the passengers and an empty train was a happy train. People like that should not be working in customer facing roles on the railway.

Once I was getting a connecting train at York which was severely overcrowded and just as we were coming into Peterborough the catering lady chose to move the trolley from the back end of the carriage in the vestibule towards the middle of the carriage in the back standard class coach blocking the aisle with the rear most set of doors not working or so we were told by the guard, meaning people had to force their way past the trolley which is not easy with luggage, the only silver lining is the trolley was in a place next to 4 seats and a table which I saw some use to get around itt, a couple of passengers only just made it off.

I agree sometimes it is unavoidable but the first situation was unacceptable customer service and the second one was a complete lack of common sense.

Jozhua · 18 May 2019

F Great Eastern said:
Couple of occasions.

Was getting on a train at Haymarket and the train was changed platform right at the last moment. Scotrail staff at the time said the train would be held to allow people to change platform and make the train as the train was late and the change wasn't announced on screens or apps literally until it pulled into the station.

Guy got out the train and shouted at everyone to get on nearest door as the train will not wait, few people got left behind as they were still making the journey from the other side of Haymarket, I got on nearest carriage and I had to go past the buffet which had a trolley in the middle of the aisle. I asked the attendant if I could come by, along with a few others who did the same as me, she told me that no, you will have to wait until Waverley and that if I learn to read, I might get on the correct carriage the next time.

Got to Waverley and I asked past and she refused to let me past and told me to get off the train and change carriage and to ask another passenger who can read if I need help. Few people then pushed past the trolley and she then went ballistic saying that now East Coast is in public ownership the staff are the important ones, not the passengers and an empty train was a happy train. People like that should not be working in customer facing roles on the railway.

Once I was getting a connecting train at York which was severely overcrowded and just as we were coming into Peterborough the catering lady chose to move the trolley from the back end of the carriage in the vestibule towards the middle of the carriage in the back standard class coach blocking the aisle with the rear most set of doors not working or so we were told by the guard, meaning people had to force their way past the trolley which is not easy with luggage, the only silver lining is the trolley was in a place next to 4 seats and a table which I saw some use to get around itt, a couple of passengers only just made it off.

I agree sometimes it is unavoidable but the first situation was unacceptable customer service and the second one was a complete lack of common sense.

Wow, both of those stories are certainly worse than mine! Some people when put in positions of marginal power over others take it to the extreme unfortunately. Asking if customers can "Learn to read" in that context is not only rude but could also be considered discriminatory, especially among people with dyslexia, etc. Did anyone report her for the incident?

What I think would have helped in my situation is if the on train staff had a way of communicating, perhaps if they had been able to ask the guard to wait a few more seconds before closing the doors. There could be many other situations where this could be invaluable!

F Great Eastern · 18 May 2019

Jozhua said:
Wow, both of those stories are certainly worse than mine! Some people when put in positions of marginal power over others take it to the extreme unfortunately. Asking if customers can "Learn to read" in that context is not only rude but could also be considered discriminatory, especially among people with dyslexia, etc. Did anyone report her for the incident?

Didn't bother, I was on the way back from a funeral so had other things to be dealing with, she claimed she was on a break but you know, whether she was or she wasn't, you still can show passengers a bit of courtesy or not leave the trolley blocking the aisle.

To be fair though on the thousands of train journeys I have took the bad experiences with train staff and poor customer service or lack information is very much the exception than the norm. Would say that I can only remember about 9-10 times where staff were rude. Most are excellent if you treat them with respect and speak to them in a civil way rather than being rude. Unfortunately I couldn't say the same for when I lived in Ireland but that's not relevant for this thread.

XC victim · 18 May 2019

I have seen this happen often. One of the reasons why I prefer a buffet or shop on services. I have never had a problem alighting a service but I once boarded a service where I had a seat booked. The catering trolley was between me a my reserved seat. I didn’t see this this being a problem and simply waited in the vestibule for the trolley to pass. However clearly many passengers were ordering complicated purchases as the trolley was still in the carriage some 20mins later when the train arrived at the next station creating a very chaotic scene.

I have also seen occasions when the trolley has been in the middle of a coach when the train stopped at a station and became very busy leaving the trolley completely stranded in the middle of the coach.

swj99 · 18 May 2019

XC victim said:
.........leaving the trolley completely stranded in the middle of the coach.

Maybe these trolleys could have steps fitted on the ends so people can climb over them more easily if they're causing an obstruction.

Dr Hoo · 18 May 2019

A family member once got over-carried to the next station in a 'short platform' scenario because the presence of a trolley mid-coach made it impossible to obey the guard's announcement to "walk forward to carriage X to alight". They asked the trolley attendant to move but were told to "take it up with the guard". I had to drive and collect said stranded and distressed relative from quite a few miles away.

Bletchleyite · 18 May 2019

swj99 said:
Maybe these trolleys could have steps fitted on the ends so people can climb over them more easily if they're causing an obstruction.

Maybe staff could ensure they move to the vestibule (on the non-platform side) suitably in advance of a station.

Bletchleyite · 18 May 2019

Dr Hoo said:
A family member once got over-carried to the next station in a 'short platform' scenario because the presence of a trolley mid-coach made it impossible to obey the guard's announcement to "walk forward to carriage X to alight". They asked the trolley attendant to move but were told to "take it up with the guard". I had to drive and collect said stranded and distressed relative from quite a few miles away.

That is utterly disgraceful. I hope the incident was reported.

Metal_gee_man · 18 May 2019

It's almost as much fun as getting shouted at by a jobsworth on an EMT HST as we pull into St Pancras, we were seconds from stopping my hand went out the window and started to turn the handle, knowing the central locking wouldn't let me open it until we stopped! I understand it may have been a problem in times gone by (without central locking) but shouting and belittling customers isn't the way to go about it very much like the trolley host who wouldn't move her trolley

Bletchleyite · 18 May 2019

To be fair you are not supposed to put any part of your body outside until the train has stopped.

Metal_gee_man · 18 May 2019

Bletchleyite said:
To be fair you are not supposed to put any part of your body outside until the train has stopped.

I hate it when you have a valid point, but there are diplomatic ways of doing it

robbeech · 18 May 2019

Jozhua said:
Asking if customers can "Learn to read" in that context is not only rude but could also be considered discriminatory, especially among people with dyslexia, etc. Did anyone report her for the incident?

Absolutely right. And to comment on it twice shows that they clearly aren’t fit to be in a customer facing roll. Add that to the fact that they’d blocked an aisle and had a break which is surely against policy and certainly against any form of common sense and you get the workings of someone that requires some additional training or relocation to somewhere else.

Metal_gee_man said:
I hate it when you have a valid point, but there are diplomatic ways of doing it

Having an arm out is one thing, turning the handle whilst moving relying on the central locking system is, with respect, pretty foolish.

Metal_gee_man · 18 May 2019

robbeech said:
Having an arm out is one thing, turning the handle whilst moving relying on the central locking system is, with respect, pretty foolish.

After spending plenty of time on slam door SE stock back in the day, this seems very mild compared to the number of doors that were often opened whilst the train was still doing 10mph pulling into the station back in the day, however I accept the current rules certainly wouldn't allow it in 2019 it just made me laugh the way it was shouted at me

ValentaFan1974 · 19 May 2019

If I happen to get stuck mid-carriage at a station and said carriage fills up, I always, without exception, will manoeuvre the trolley up or down to allow passengers to slot into spare seats to allow me to pass them. This allows the passengers to board the train faster enabling the Train Manager to dispatch the train on time. Also means happier passengers as I’m trying my best to allow them to get to their seats quickly. It’s not easy with a 20-odd stone trolley to move about easily but I’ll always ensure that if I do get stuck I minimise any issues and always apologise and direct passengers to the nearest spare spaces to allow me to pass.

I’d never condone the behaviour some of you had witnessed. At the end of the day, without passengers on the train we wouldn’t have jobs to do. I also find people are happier when they see you’re trying to help...

DanDaDriver · 19 May 2019

F Great Eastern said:
Few people then pushed past the trolley and she then went ballistic saying that now East Coast is in public ownership the staff are the important ones, not the passengers and an empty train was a happy train. People like that should not be working in customer facing roles on the railway

And this happened exactly as you’re reporting it here...?

jamesst · 19 May 2019

DanDaDriver said:
And this happened exactly as you’re reporting it here...?

That was the exact same thought I had...

al78 · 19 May 2019

F Great Eastern said:
Couple of occasions.
I asked the attendant if I could come by, along with a few others who did the same as me, she told me that no, you will have to wait until Waverley and that if I learn to read, I might get on the correct carriage the next time.

Got to Waverley and I asked past and she refused to let me past and told me to get off the train and change carriage and to ask another passenger who can read if I need help. Few people then pushed past the trolley and she then went ballistic saying that now East Coast is in public ownership the staff are the important ones, not the passengers and an empty train was a happy train.

If a customer facing person regularly behaves like that, I would have little sympathy if they were assaulted by an irate customer, in fact I might go as far as to say they were asking for it.

F Great Eastern · 19 May 2019

DanDaDriver said:
And this happened exactly as you’re reporting it here...?

You don't have to believe me. Sorry if it doesn't suit your agenda. As I said though the thousands of journeys I take its rare I have issues and many more examples of excellence than bad practice.

Maybe she had a bad day as the conditions were not great as it was in winter and the train was well late.

F Great Eastern · 19 May 2019

al78 said:
If a customer facing person regularly behaves like that, I would have little sympathy if they were assaulted by an irate customer, in fact I might go as far as to say they were asking for it.

It's never acceptable to assualt staff. Even if they are rude. We also have no idea if this one incident was representing that staff members overall attitude over a longer period.

About 15 or 20 years ago the attitude of staff to customers was poorer than it is now. We are extremely lucky to have very approachable staff who generally care about customers than ones who see them as an inconvenience.

Jozhua · 19 May 2019

ValentaFan1974 said:
If I happen to get stuck mid-carriage at a station and said carriage fills up, I always, without exception, will manoeuvre the trolley up or down to allow passengers to slot into spare seats to allow me to pass them. This allows the passengers to board the train faster enabling the Train Manager to dispatch the train on time. Also means happier passengers as I’m trying my best to allow them to get to their seats quickly. It’s not easy with a 20-odd stone trolley to move about easily but I’ll always ensure that if I do get stuck I minimise any issues and always apologise and direct passengers to the nearest spare spaces to allow me to pass.

I’d never condone the behaviour some of you had witnessed. At the end of the day, without passengers on the train we wouldn’t have jobs to do. I also find people are happier when they see you’re trying to help...

Thank-you for your input! This definitely seems like the best solution to the problem, I guess one of the difficulties on the Norwich to Liverpool route is that the train is rather short for the number of passengers being carried, making this less of a possibility for the catering staff. Whilst the train has a 40/50 minute run of no stops between Stockport and Sheffield, after that it runs pretty much as a local train and stops rather frequently.

What is your experience on the different types of trains/routes and how does this effect your job?

Jozhua · 19 May 2019

al78 said:
If a customer facing person regularly behaves like that, I would have little sympathy if they were assaulted by an irate customer, in fact I might go as far as to say they were asking for it.

Let's keep this thread civilised please!

Whilst I understand the situation would be incredibly frustrating for passengers, no one should ever resort to this sort of behaviour. A complaint would be more than enough.

noddingdonkey · 19 May 2019

In the circumstances described where the trolley is preventing access to the only available door at a short platform I think using the passcom would be justified to prevent being overcarried.

If that happened a few times, enough delay minutes might accrue to focus a few minds.

gimmea50anyday · 19 May 2019

Happen s to train crew while doing ticket checks too. Nightmare when the train has stopped at Chester le street and the trolley is between me and the GOP only to discover once do-si-do'ing around said trolley that the DKS has been left switched on in the rear can!

Whichever individual was at the receiving end of this, I sincerely hope you reported it. That is totally unacceptable behaviour from any member of staff.
"Got to Waverley and I asked past (the trolley blocking the gangway) and she refused to let me past and told me to get off the train and change carriage and to ask another passenger who can read if I need help. Few people then pushed past the trolley and she then went ballistic saying that now East Coast is in public ownership the staff are the important ones, not the passengers"
I am fully supportive of my catering crew and will do anything to help them but if they did that to passengers on my train, they would be off at the next stop!

ashkeba · 19 May 2019

Do any UK trains have Austrian style at-seat service in standard class? Where orders are taken in person or by app, then a trolley containing only orders passes through quickly delivering them. As well as more efficient, not blocking aisles as long, it seems kinder to staff not making them push heavy trolleys around just in case anyone wants anything and try messing with hot water in a crowded area.

Jozhua · 19 May 2019

ashkeba said:
Do any UK trains have Austrian style at-seat service in standard class? Where orders are taken in person or by app, then a trolley containing only orders passes through quickly delivering them. As well as more efficient, not blocking aisles as long, it seems kinder to staff not making them push heavy trolleys around just in case anyone wants anything and try messing with hot water in a crowded area.

Except for first class, I highly doubt it. Many intercity trains such as Cross Country and Transpennine Express would probably be too overcrowded for the staff to get through to people in different carriages with their orders!

F Great Eastern · 19 May 2019

Not as an everyday occurance no.

If you are feeling unwell or you are disabled or unable to walk to the buffet if you get a nice guard they might be willing to get something for you though as happened to me once when I had a broken limb.

duffield · 19 May 2019

Jozhua said:
Except for first class, I highly doubt it. Many intercity trains such as Cross Country and Transpennine Express would probably be too overcrowded for the staff to get through to people in different carriages with their orders!

Yes, there's one thing worse than the trolley not being able to get to you so you can't buy food or drink - and that's paying in advance for food and drink and *then* not getting it. I suppose you could have an overhead conveyor system or pneumatic tubes delivering pre-paid orders to seats though.

Gangways blocked at stations by catering trolley

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