High Mileage Coaches

Pierce · 3 May 2019

Hi there. I was wondering what a realistic estimated life expectancy of a coach with a very high annual mileage would be? For example, a scheduled coach is running around 1,000km per day or about 350,000km per year, almost entirely on the motorway.

Would you expect the coach to die (or become uneconomic) after 2-3 years, perhaps hitting a million kilometres, or would it likely just keep on going? Would the brand likely make a big difference to reliability – e.g. a Yutong TC12 vs. a Volvo 9900 – or is it more about looking after them well?

When it did break down, what would you expect to go wrong? Engine? If you did a full refurb could you then run it for another few years or are you likely to get chassis/body problems?

Obviously, there's no exact answer but I was wondering if anyone could share any experience they have from other operators that use coaches on very high mileage routes?

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RT4038 · 3 May 2019

Pierce said:
Hi there. I was wondering what a realistic estimated life expectancy of a coach with a very high annual mileage would be? For example, a scheduled coach is running around 1,000km per day or about 350,000km per year, almost entirely on the motorway.

Would you expect the coach to die (or become uneconomic) after 2-3 years, perhaps hitting a million kilometres, or would it likely just keep on going? Would the brand likely make a big difference to reliability – e.g. a Yutong TC12 vs. a Volvo 9900 – or is it more about looking after them well?

When it did break down, what would you expect to go wrong? Engine? If you did a full refurb could you then run it for another few years or are you likely to get chassis/body problems?

Obviously, there's no exact answer but I was wondering if anyone could share any experience they have from other operators that use coaches on very high mileage routes?

You will get about 1.25m miles before engine/gearbox/transmission wear out. Obviously how well it is being maintained and driven will play its part - the kind of use you are talking about will not leave much time for maintenance, and will have a huge variety of drivers. Whether you do a refurb, or just buy another one, will depend on the economics at the time. With this kind of use, the bodywork interior will be pretty tired by then too.

alangla · 3 May 2019

Stagecoach have 63 plate Volvo/Panthers that have been hammered along the M8 all day (and now all night) since they were new. If they’ anything like their predecessors, they’ll have about another 18 months probably before moving on to a retirement somewhere like Moray. The mileages on these things must absolutely colossal when they’re finally sold out of the group

Jordan Adam · 3 May 2019

alangla said:
Stagecoach have 63 plate Volvo/Panthers that have been hammered along the M8 all day (and now all night) since they were new. If they’ anything like their predecessors, they’ll have about another 18 months probably before moving on to a retirement somewhere like Moray. The mileages on these things must absolutely colossal when they’re finally sold out of the group

Highly doubt they'd end up in Moray given that the 2 core "Coach" routes there use 67/68/19 plate vehicles! There's nowhere really within North Scotland where they could go. I wouldn't be surprised if they were sold on or put on the Fife Express network.

Mwanesh · 4 May 2019

One of the Megabus Van hools has about a 1 000 000 miles .Its still being hammered down the motorway.

ChilternTurbo · 5 May 2019

Whenever I'm on the M40 I often wonder what sort of milage the Oxford Tube/Airline/X90 vehicles rack up. It must be considerable given the frequency of these services. I do see the odd ex Oxford Neoplan from the KP04xxx batch of coaches with second or third owners. Those must have colossal high milages!

Cowley · 5 May 2019

Having worked on a few coaches as an apprentice in my youth I’d imagine that they were pretty similar today, in that on a commercial vehicle like a coach various items like bushes/prop shaft couplings/suspension airbags etc are all designed to be replaced reasonably easily and not at great cost.
The separate heavy duty chassis will last for a very long time and take an enormous amount of punishment, so a decent quality coach should do 1 million miles without too much of a problem at all, and even if it had engine wear it could be rebuilt with new bearings, or have the head gasket changed etc.
Over time the coach itself will start to look outdated and will probably start to feel a bit baggy and tired.
I was wondering after reading this thread how many miles the old coaches used on school runs around here have on them now?
I bet carting a load of kids around awkward country lanes in winter is still pretty demanding.

Tom B · 5 May 2019

I would assume that long motorway runs are better for a vehicle than stop start city work? Provided that maintenance schedules are adhered to.

DMU180 · 5 May 2019

First Coach Hire have 4 2006 Caetano Levante's which were new for national express, then moved to Aircoach in Ireland and now First Aberdeen. They've got 2.5 million km's and still run pretty well, considering they've had 13 years of being hammered! Still the original interiors too and could do with a deep clean but I've saw much newer coaches a lot worse.

Mwanesh · 5 May 2019

ChilternTurbo said:
Whenever I'm on the M40 I often wonder what sort of milage the Oxford Tube/Airline/X90 vehicles rack up. It must be considerable given the frequency of these services. I do see the odd ex Oxford Neoplan from the KP04xxx batch of coaches with second or third owners. Those must have colossal high milages!

Just asked an Oxford Tube driver at London Victoria he just told me to check for myself.It has about 592 000 miles on the clock.

Pierce · 7 May 2019

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Lots of good information.

al_557 · 7 May 2019

Stagecoach have 64 plate Volvo B11R's on the X5 between Cambridge and Oxford which runs via Bedford, Milton Keynes, Buckingham and Bicester. The last one of these gets back to Bedford depot well after midnight. They suffer frequent breakdowns and are regularly off the road causing Enviro 400's to be used on some workings

Jordan Adam · 7 May 2019

al_557 said:
Stagecoach have 64 plate Volvo B11R's on the X5 between Cambridge and Oxford which runs via Bedford, Milton Keynes, Buckingham and Bicester. The last one of these gets back to Bedford depot well after midnight. They suffer frequent breakdowns and are regularly off the road causing Enviro 400's to be used on some workings

Sounds about right, we have the bulk of the former X5 stock (KX58 & KX61 Panthers) and they're among the most unreliable vehicles in the fleet.

Mwanesh · 8 May 2019

There is something wrong with the Volvo B11R . I was speaking to a Parks of Hamilton driver the other day he did mention their new 68 plate coaches keep breaking . National Express Start Hill have Scania Levantes which i find odd given most National Express contractors use Volvo

Silver Cobra · 8 May 2019

Jordan Adam said:
Sounds about right, we have the bulk of the former X5 stock (KX58 & KX61 Panthers) and they're among the most unreliable vehicles in the fleet.

The KX61s will most likely have come from another fleet. Other than the KX58s, Stagecoach Bedford/East only had one AE11 Panther (unit 53618), which they still have running the route 99 service.

overthewater · 8 May 2019

Jordan Adam said:
Highly doubt they'd end up in Moray given that the 2 core "Coach" routes there use 67/68/19 plate vehicles! There's nowhere really within North Scotland where they could go. I wouldn't be surprised if they were sold on or put on the Fife Express network.

I doubt Fife will get them, there already gone looking elsewhere for stock, from the same year. However some of the older B7 are moving to fife for School work. I wonder if there will be sold off. A number of other operators have pick up original version. Are the 57 plates still up in the Highlands for School work?

ChilternTurbo said:
Whenever I'm on the M40 I often wonder what sort of milage the Oxford Tube/Airline/X90 vehicles rack up. It must be considerable given the frequency of these services. I do see the odd ex Oxford Neoplan from the KP04xxx batch of coaches with second or third owners. Those must have colossal high milages!

Shouldn't these be getting replaced this year?

al_557 said:
Stagecoach have 64 plate Volvo B11R's on the X5 between Cambridge and Oxford which runs via Bedford, Milton Keynes, Buckingham and Bicester. The last one of these gets back to Bedford depot well after midnight. They suffer frequent breakdowns and are regularly off the road causing Enviro 400's to be used on some workings

Shouldn't these be getting replace this year?

It's a shame the B13 were continued, Some of the newer B11 can be quick of the mark. Could this be the reason Fife has not been given any new coaches this year?

Mwanesh · 8 May 2019

Silver Cobra said:
The KX61s will most likely have come from another fleet. Other than the KX58s, Stagecoach Bedford/East only had one AE11 Panther (unit 53618), which they still have running the route 99 service.

The 61 plates were the ones that launched the European Operations.They were allocated to Rugby originally .

awsnews · 8 May 2019

Bruce's Coaches of Salsburgh have just withdrawn one of their 63 plate Scanias which has done 2.1m km on National Express work. Apparently it is going for further use in Ireland.

dan5324 · 10 May 2019

Mwanesh said:
There is something wrong with the Volvo B11R . I was speaking to a Parks of Hamilton driver the other day he did mention their new 68 plate coaches keep breaking . National Express Start Hill have Scania Levantes which i find odd given most National Express contractors use Volvo

They have Scanias purely due to the fact the Scania Stansted workshop is literally opposite the start hill depot. Makes it much much more easier and economical to get maintenance done. All start hill volvos have since gone over to Luton.

richw · 10 May 2019

The last national express I travelled on, a Caetano, had 960,000 km showing.
Can’t remember the age of it though.

F Great Eastern · 18 May 2019

DMU180 said:
First Coach Hire have 4 2006 Caetano Levante's which were new for national express, then moved to Aircoach in Ireland and now First Aberdeen. They've got 2.5 million km's and still run pretty well, considering they've had 13 years of being hammered! Still the original interiors too and could do with a deep clean but I've saw much newer coaches a lot worse.

That's nothing, you should have seen some of the Setra's that Aircoach had that they returned off-lease, they had around 3 million km on them and past their best so Aircoach got shot of them. I thought that they'd barely turn a wheel in service again. But they turned up at Dublin Coach and have since probably done at the very least another 500,000km, although they are suffering from all kinds of issues and are very unreliable. Can't be far off 4 million km now.

Dublin Coach also have a batch of ex Oxford Tube Neoplans dating from 2004 which are even more worn down and both them and the 2004 ex Aircoach Setras are well known for breaking down and there's been a few incidents of them catching fire and two of their vehicles burnt out. There's a 70 page of so thread discussing the state of their fleet and the unreliability of it on a popular Irish forum.

However, I once went past the Dublin Coach depot and saw a number of the vehicles they had from the same batch that were withdrawn and honestly it looked more like a scrapyard, the vehicles were in such a bad condition. Serious bodywork damage, a good few with fire damage and others that had serious problems that meant they were clearly being stripped for parts to keep their embattled brothers and sisters running a bit longer. I honestly think they sweat the assets to the absolute maximum till they are so bad that they just cannot run anymore.

Jordan Adam · 18 May 2019

DMU180 said:
First Coach Hire have 4 2006 Caetano Levante's which were new for national express, then moved to Aircoach in Ireland and now First Aberdeen. They've got 2.5 million km's and still run pretty well, considering they've had 13 years of being hammered! Still the original interiors too and could do with a deep clean but I've saw much newer coaches a lot worse.

They were due to be getting internally refurbished (along with the bulk of the First Aberdeen Coach Hire fleet), but there doesn't appear to have been any progress thus far.

ChilternTurbo · 18 May 2019

F Great Eastern said:
Dublin Coach also have a batch of ex Oxford Tube Neoplans dating from 2004 which are even more worn down and both them and the 2004 ex Aircoach Setras are well known for breaking down and there's been a few incidents of them catching fire and two of their vehicles burnt out. There's a 70 page of so thread discussing the state of their fleet and the unreliability of it on a popular Irish forum.

Those Oxford Tube Neoplans were a regular sight on the hard shoulder of the M40 when they were new...

F Great Eastern · 18 May 2019

ChilternTurbo said:
Those Oxford Tube Neoplans were a regular sight on the hard shoulder of the M40 when they were new...

See here one of them and their fate, but wasn't the only one
https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/2017-photos/August-2017/i-wtk8Mdp/A

And one of the Setras
https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news...-it-caught-fire-on-m7-outside-portlaoise.html

route101 · 19 May 2019

alangla said:
Stagecoach have 63 plate Volvo/Panthers that have been hammered along the M8 all day (and now all night) since they were new. If they’ anything like their predecessors, they’ll have about another 18 months probably before moving on to a retirement somewhere like Moray. The mileages on these things must absolutely colossal when they’re finally sold out of the group

They ust be up for replacement ,theres some newer ones with Parks on the 900 though

F Great Eastern · 19 May 2019

Dublin Coach also have some ex Megabus and Oxford Tube Vanhools from 2008/2009 which were also pretty high mileage when they got them apparently, what with them, the 2004 Neoplans and the 2004 Setras that Aircoach hammered 24 hours a day, 7 days a week 364 days a year for over a decade it's no wonder they have issues.

What most of the big groups do well is get their moneys worth out the vehicles and when the bathtub curve starts going up again sharply move them on quickly. Trouble is often there is some operator who will buy them up at a heavily knocked down price and sweat every possible last mile out of them.

Mwanesh · 19 May 2019

F Great Eastern said:
Dublin Coach also have some ex Megabus and Oxford Tube Vanhools from 2008/2009 which were also pretty high mileage when they got them apparently, what with them, the 2004 Neoplans and the 2004 Setras that Aircoach hammered 24 hours a day, 7 days a week 364 days a year for over a decade it's no wonder they have issues.

What most of the big groups do well is get their moneys worth out the vehicles and when the bathtub curve starts going up again sharply move them on quickly. Trouble is often there is some operator who will buy them up at a heavily knocked down price and sweat every possible last mile out of them.

Those Megabus / Oxford Tube Van Hools were on sale on sale for £65 000 each in 2017 when Dublin Coach got them . One of them had a new engine a few months before they were sold .

F Great Eastern · 19 May 2019

Mwanesh said:
Those Megabus / Oxford Tube Van Hools were on sale on sale for £65 000 each in 2017 when Dublin Coach got them . One of them had a new engine a few months before they were sold .

They paid a little less than that for them, although perhaps the dealer did a deal with them as they took quite a few of them,

High Mileage Coaches

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