Why is Birmingham so unloved?

rdeez · 16 May 2019

I've lived in Birmingham for three years now, and I don't think it's particularly "unloved". I think it still has a reputation to some degree, which is mostly undeserved, though like many cities of its size it has its share of problems - council short of cash, rising crime in recent years. I've definitely noticed an increase in homelessness/begging since I moved here, but again I don't think that's restricted to Birmingham and is a national trend.

What I like most about it, I think, is the diversity of character you get over a relatively small area. There's the now increasingly modern city centre which also retains some historic gems like the area around Victoria Square and Colmore Row, the grand leafy suburbs around Edgbaston and Harborne, the post-industrial edginess of Digbeth and of course the famous "larger than Venice" canal network.

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xc170 · 16 May 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Cities evolve and grow, they are never "finished".

You've missed my point, I'm aware cities evolve and grow, what I'm saying is the whole city center, the bit visitors see, has been a giant constructoin site for the last 10 years.

Look at the Midland Metro as an example, it took an age to build the extension only as far as New Street station, now the next phase is well underway the other side of the city center is a building site.

PeterY · 16 May 2019

AM9 said:
St Albans is joined to Watford through Bricket Wood, along Lye Lane, - the gap over the M25 is just less than 200m. Of course, St Albans is a million miles from Watford.

Lye Lane isn't that where Speilplatz is, the naturist place? Plenty of countryside around there.

Also if you follow footpaths and bridle paths lots of countryside behind Bricketwood.

Bald Rick · 16 May 2019

PeterY said:
Lye Lane isn't that where Speilplatz is, the naturist place?

It is indeed. But if you’re in the area, it’s best not to look too hard, so to speak

Typhoon · 17 May 2019

Samuel88 said:
I'm guessing you've never been to Alum Rock!

I have, I had relatives who lived there. I had a good idea what went on but the quote was

radamfi said:
Birmingham has not had the same reputation for crime as Manchester.

(my emphasis). And it doesn't - the Rock is not known much outside the West Midlands but even in the south we know about Moss Side. To be honest, I used to more apprehensive about Lozells.

J-2739 · 17 May 2019

I think this thread should be read in another way: what has caused Birmingham to earn itself a bad reputation, that everyone is aware about, despite their attachments to the city? (similar to how Leeds United fans are passionate about their team, and yet, they acknowledge that they are despised by many other teams)

Is it the Brummie accent? The grime? Or even the architecture?

Bald Rick · 17 May 2019

Typhoon said:
I have, I had relatives who lived there. I had a good idea what went on but the quote was
(my emphasis). And it doesn't - the Rock is not known much outside the West Midlands but even in the south we know about Moss Side. To be honest, I used to more apprehensive about Lozells.

+1 re Lozells! Bandit country. The Rock was placid by comparison.

Bald Rick · 17 May 2019

J-2739 said:
I think this thread should be read in another way: what has caused Birmingham to earn itself a bad reputation, that everyone is aware about, despite their attachments to the city? (similar to how Leeds United fans are passionate about their team, and yet, they acknowledge that they are despised by many other teams)

Is it the Brummie accent? The grime? Or even the architecture?

My view is that because you can easily see the city from the M6, anyone from London driving north (or vice versa) would see it, and think it looked a bit, well, grimy. Similarly, anyone passing through New St would think the same. And let’s face it, the Brummie accent is a bit grating (unlike a proper Black Country accent which is poetry).

Typhoon · 17 May 2019

J-2739 said:
Is it the Brummie accent? The grime? Or even the architecture?

There is a general perception of Birmingham that is largely based on myth. For instance, the accent - many Brummies speak with little or no accent, but the stereotype remains.

I don't think it helps that there has never been a music movement based in Birmingham to give it a boost (unlike the Mersey Beat and Madchester as well as Sheffield).

Bald Rick · 17 May 2019

Typhoon said:
I don't think it helps that there has never been a music movement based in Birmingham to give it a boost (unlike the Mersey Beat and Madchester as well as Sheffield).

I think the heavy metal boys will disagree with you there. And Bhangra.

fowler9 · 18 May 2019

Bald Rick said:
I think the heavy metal boys will disagree with you there. And Bhangra.

Indeed, Black Sabbath and Napalm Death to name but two. I think globally for extreme music, which has a huge global following, Birmingham is much bigger than Madchester or Sheffield. I saw a guy in Valparaiso in Chile with a Carcass t shirt, now they are kind of from Liverpool but the musical style and the lead guitarist was from Napalm Death in Birmingham. I saw absolutely no one wearing t shirts from Manchester or Sheffield bands. A lot of indie bands, no matter how well known in the UK, are pretty much unknown Elsewhere. Metal however is global, loads of it in Brum.

Jozhua · 18 May 2019

Manchester is probably just as "Unloved" as Birmingham! Rail network is incredibly unreliable, Picadilly 13/14 is a mess and we still have Pacers everywhere.

Our tram system is much more expansive, however and carries quite a considerable number of people. Although the commuter network is arguably much better in Birmingham.

Cowley · 18 May 2019

Typhoon said:
I don't think it helps that there has never been a music movement based in Birmingham to give it a boost (unlike the Mersey Beat and Madchester as well as Sheffield).

I must say Typhoon that some great bands either came from, or had very strong links to Birmingham.
The city had its version of the above only a bit earlier and a bit heavier.
It’s always been a well thought of place (and birthplace actually) in rock/heavy metal circles.
Here’s a few for starters - Black Sabbath, ELO, Led Zeppelin, Napalm Death, Wizzard, Slade, The Moody Blues...

Typhoon · 18 May 2019

Bald Rick said:
I think the heavy metal boys will disagree with you there. And Bhangra.

I think the Birmingham talent has been spread across a lot of genres - there has been no Epstein, no Wilson. Heavy metal - Black Sabbath obviously Brummies, Judas Priest, I must admit I wasn't aware of some of the others, I think you are right here. Bhangra - not really distinctively Birmingham, I would say. I considered Two-Tone but The Specials are Coventry.

Cowley said:
I must say Typhoon that some great bands either came from, or had very strong links to Birmingham.
The city had its version of the above only a bit earlier and a bit heavier.
It’s always been a well thought of place (and birthplace actually) in rock/heavy metal circles.
Here’s a few for starters - Black Sabbath, ELO, Led Zeppelin, Napalm Death, Wizzard, Slade, The Moody Blues...

There is nothing wrong with Birmingham music at all, I just don't think there has been the concentration of talent in a particular field that was true of Liverpool or Manchester. Looking at the above list, to which I would add The Spencer Davis group, The Move, The Beat, Ocean Colour Scene, (even) Duran Duran, and (simply because I thought they were wonderful) Terry and Gerry; all excellent in their own right but they cover such a wide range of aspects of modern music but no 'movement' - unlike other cities. Incidentally I think Wulfrunians would argue with the inclusion of Slade.

Bald Rick · 18 May 2019

Typhoon said:
Incidentally I think Wulfrunians would argue with the inclusion of Slade.

Yep, Slade are not from Birmingham. Strictly speaking only half of Led Zeppelin were from the
West Midlands, and neither of them were from Birmingham (if you told Robert Plant he was a Brummie, you’d get a mouthful of Black Country back at yow) but Birmingham is where their music found its home.

Typhoon · 18 May 2019

Bald Rick said:
Yep, Slade are not from Birmingham. Strictly speaking only half of Led Zeppelin were from the
West Midlands, and neither of them were from Birmingham (if you told Robert Plant he was a Brummie, you’d get a mouthful of Black Country back at yow) but Birmingham is where their music found its home.

I don't disagree, on reflection I could have added UB40 or Dexys (using the 'home' theme) but you wouldn't find many of these on the same bill - Slade, ELO, Led Zeppelin, Moody Blues, Sabbath say. There was a vibrant music 'scene' in Brum but most of the groups I listened to at MAC were well known there but unknown outside of the city unless you listened to Peel. You could argue that no city has offered such a wide variety of music acts but I don't think there was a depth of acts in a particular genre (except for your example of Heavy Metal).

Cowley · 18 May 2019

I have taken myself in hand over the Slade statement...

Typhoon · 18 May 2019

Cowley said:
I have taken myself in hand over the Slade statement...

You won't be the first (or last). I suppose its because if you make this mistake 'on the ground' you soon learn the lesson the hard way!

Bald Rick · 18 May 2019

To be fair, Noddy and co. will be very happy this evening due to Wolves qualifying for European football next season, so they’d let you off

Cowley · 18 May 2019

Busaholic · 18 May 2019

Recently read an obituary of Brian Walden, well known to those of a certain age for his TV political programmes from the 1980s and early 90s, but before that a Labour MP for Birmingham Ladywood. Apparently when he and Roy Jenkins were both Labour MPs for Birmingham seats they used to meet up in a hotel before journeying back to London together, and both agreed the best thing about Birmingham was the leaving of it. There's grateful for you :lol:

satisnek · 19 May 2019

I can remember Birmingham in the 1980s and 1990s, and it was grim! You only need to watch the video for Dexy's Midnight Runners 'Geno' (from 1980, which unfortunately I can't find on YouTube) to see what a bleak, grey, concrete jungle it was. Indeed, the best part of Birmingham was the Class 50 hauling the train out of the place! Then, at the turn of the century (the 'just do it and worry about paying later' Blair years) we saw the Bullring, Martineau Place and Eastside redevelopments, amongst others. Now, as much as I despise 'blobitecture' and the destruction of perfectly good buildings less than 40 years old, I have to admit that it brought a vibrancy to the city which wasn't there before. However, I can't help feeling that much of the gloss has worn off now. The city centre is infested with beggars and is reflecting the downturn in 'High Street shopping' - the Palisades (over New Street station) has been replaced with mostly air, while the Pavilions Centre is now a giant Primark!

It should be added that the problem with Birmingham is that it lacks a central 'focal point'. Manchester has Piccadilly Gardens and Nottingham has the Old Market Square, but Birmingham is just a solid block of retail with the leisure-orientated facilities on the periphary.

Incidentally, I was in the Bullring Centre a few weeks ago and observed that it's now 17 years old (and being used by a whole new generation) - but it still looked good. Bearing in mind that most of the 1970s shopping centres around the UK received a refurbishment after 12-15 years, it's obvious that the Bullring was built to a very high standard.

Jozhua · 19 May 2019

You're right about focal points! Unfortunately, Picadilly gardens seems to be a gathering point for people facing difficulties with drugs, etc, making it quite undesirable for most people...

That, plus the addition of some poorly thought out brutalism in the mix makes it not the best place!

BluePenguin · 19 May 2019

Is it unloved? I don't mind Birmingham at all. In fact it's very cheap to get to if you know your fares. Aston Palace is beautiful and well worth a visit for some culture if you don't like football. Birmingham New Street has a collection of nice shops and even a pretty good Nando's. As with any city it does have its flaws and notorious for being home to the city with greatest population of Asians second only to London, which does put some people off. However the range of good quality takeaway is undeniable.

Milton Keynes feels very similar to Birmingham in comparison and is the same in many ways although lacks the Midlands feel that places like Nottingham have.

BluePenguin · 19 May 2019

xc170 said:
The problem with Birmingham is, constant building work, every time I go into Birmingham, I think, it'll look really nice once it's finished, but that's the problem, it's never finished.

The whole city center always has and always will be one giant building site.

I feel that. The unfinished feeling does not make the city centre slightly fustrating and adds to the already loud noise of the traffic. However the fact that money is being invested into Birmingham shows that some people do desire to work and live there. I suppose the main issue is that Birmingham is not exactly a tourist attraction and so nobody would think of visiting there.

Southampton feels exactly the same. They are constantly building new student accommodation everywhere. Bargate quarter has been a building site for ages now as have the construction side opposite the Debenhams. A large proportion of cars seem to head straight for the docks rather than shopping centres during the week so the feeling with Birmingham in terms of noise is mutal

Typhoon · 20 May 2019

BluePenguin said:
As with any city it does have its flaws and notorious for being home to the city with greatest population of Asians second only to London, which does put some people off. However the range of good quality takeaway is undeniable.

Plus points - the Balti Triangle and shopping streets (like Soho Road) which don't look like they could be anywhere in the UK.

Iskra · 20 May 2019

For me I don't like Birmingham for the following reasons: the accent, the fact that the city centre is primarily a series of shopping centres, it's a cultural void for a city of its size, the lack of decent drinking establishments (I'm sure there are some, but I'm yet to find any) and the second-city delusions of grandeur- it's a meaningless self-aggrandising title for a vacuous place.

I prefer Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol, in fact most other British cities.

radamfi · 20 May 2019

Typhoon said:
Incidentally I think Wulfrunians would argue with the inclusion of Slade.

The rivalry between the neighbouring towns is one of the reasons why Birmingham has fallen behind Manchester in status. Greater Manchester used to be like that but now they largely work together for the common good. So now it is mostly OK to say just "Manchester" rather than "Greater Manchester" even if you mean the region as a whole.

fowler9 · 20 May 2019

Iskra said:
For me I don't like Birmingham for the following reasons: the accent, the fact that the city centre is primarily a series of shopping centres, it's a cultural void for a city of its size, the lack of decent drinking establishments (I'm sure there are some, but I'm yet to find any) and the second-city delusions of grandeur- it's a meaningless self-aggrandising title for a vacuous place.

I prefer Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Bristol, in fact most other British cities.

I quite like the Birmingham accent and am pinged anyone would say otherwise. I thank Mick Harris of Napalm Death for the word pinged.

edwin_m · 20 May 2019

satisnek said:
It should be added that the problem with Birmingham is that it lacks a central 'focal point'. Manchester has Piccadilly Gardens and Nottingham has the Old Market Square, but Birmingham is just a solid block of retail with the leisure-orientated facilities on the periphary.

Centenary Square is very near the centre but didn't really feel like it. One of the objectives of the current work is to tie it in to Victoria Square across Queensway, which I imagine is intended to create that sort of focal point. I haven't been over that way since 2017 but I have to say at that time I didn't think I'd ever seen so much of a city centre hidden behind hoardings!

Why is Birmingham so unloved?

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