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Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

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Alanko

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Sickandtired said:
Serious question. Does anyone think E-G actually needs 8 car 385 service. I never struggle to get a seat at either fh or croy. Think on that line 8 car is embelishment for embelishment sake?
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Really it is an 8 - 1 set as First Class is usually empty and robs the trains of most of a carriage. Add in bike space and you must shed most of a coach. I would do away with the trolley service, really, as it feels like embellishment. I've never seen anybody buy one of those Scotrail teddies yet.

I've been on some morning Ediinburgh (EDB) - Glasgow QS (GLQ) services hat ends up with standing passengers after Croy. I do think that some passengers prefer to stand; especially on the return leg in the evening. The 17:30 Glasgow - Edinburgh train seems to be around the busiest, and the most busy on Tuesday - Thursday. People seem happy to stand from Glasgow if they are then getting off at Croy or Falkirk High, regardless of seat availability.

Speaking of those 17:30 trains, I'm always blown away by the people who walk the whole length of the train. You can be out of Cowlairs tunnel and people still come walking through the train. Very odd if you are sitting in the second coach and people are banking on the odd seat being spare in the front coach. My best strategy for bagging a table to myself in the morning is to get on one of the rear coaches. Haymarket commuters seem to bunch up the platform for whatever reason, and this behavior is copied at Linlithgow. I've seen commuters walk further than the length of a 7-car 385 set and then have to double back on themselves. Odd sitting in a fairly lightly occupied coach and watching people vaulting past the window to get a seat in a different coach.
 
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takno

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Alanko said:
Really it is an 8 - 1 set as First Class is usually empty and robs the trains of most of a carriage. Add in bike space and you must shed most of a coach. I would do away with the trolley service, really, as it feels like embellishment. I've never seen anybody buy one of those Scotrail teddies yet.

I've been on some morning EDI - GLA services (excuse the airport terminology) that ends up with standing passengers after Croy. I do think that some passengers prefer to stand; especially on the return leg in the evening. The 17:30 Glasgow - Edinburgh train seems to be around the busiest, and the most busy on Tuesday - Thursday. People seem happy to stand from Glasgow if they are then getting off at Croy or Falkirk High, regardless of seat availability.

Speaking of those 17:30 trains, I'm always blown away by the people who walk the whole length of the train. You can be out of Cowlairs tunnel and people still come walking through the train. Very odd if you are sitting in the second coach and people are banking on the odd seat being spare in the front coach. My best strategy for bagging a table to myself in the morning is to get on one of the rear coaches. Haymarket commuters seem to bunch up the platform for whatever reason, and this behavior is copied at Linlithgow. I've seen commuters walk further than the length of a 7-car 385 set and then have to double back on themselves. Odd sitting in a fairly lightly occupied coach and watching people vaulting past the window to get a seat in a different coach.
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Not sure the trolley takes up enough space to make a difference, and it helps to create a first class product people will pay through the nose for. I've got to admit that if I didn't have time to get a cheap coffee from pret in the morning I'm not going to spend a fortune on some trolley rubbish on the train, but presumably somebody likes it.

As to the people walking towards the front, I would guess it's more to do with platform position when they get off than it is getting a seat. The exit at croy in particular is off the very end of the platform, and of course at Edinburgh it's still the front of the train on most arrivals
 
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jagardner1984

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Yes I’ve seen a few people using the trolley on the E&G. Presumably it makes them at least 20k a year per staff member, as that’s what they pay them !

I suppose after years of overcrowding on services from GLQ, they are looking for a big capacity increase to see them through for the next decade or so. Certainly off peak, dragging 7 (soon to be 8) car sets across the E&G is done presumably to save practical effort in coupling / stabling, but environmentally Etc is totally crazy. Some services would barely fill every other seat / table in a 3 car.
 
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takno

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jagardner1984 said:
Yes I’ve seen a few people using the trolley on the E&G. Presumably it makes them at least 20k a year per staff member, as that’s what they pay them !
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It's a franchise commitment isn't it? If so it doesnt need to make a profit, it just needs to be less expensive than handing in the keys
 
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InOban

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With regenerative braking the environmental cost of running longer trains than necessary is much less. I would expect in the long run they will detach one unit off-peak simply to allow daytime servicing.
 
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Ben Conlin

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Does anyone know if the Carstairs line will be getting 385s at some point and if so what do you think the formations will be because currently it runs with 4 car 380s
 
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route101

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Alanko said:
Really it is an 8 - 1 set as First Class is usually empty and robs the trains of most of a carriage. Add in bike space and you must shed most of a coach. I would do away with the trolley service, really, as it feels like embellishment. I've never seen anybody buy one of those Scotrail teddies yet.

I've been on some morning EDI - GLA services (excuse the airport terminology) that ends up with standing passengers after Croy. I do think that some passengers prefer to stand; especially on the return leg in the evening. The 17:30 Glasgow - Edinburgh train seems to be around the busiest, and the most busy on Tuesday - Thursday. People seem happy to stand from Glasgow if they are then getting off at Croy or Falkirk High, regardless of seat availability.

Speaking of those 17:30 trains, I'm always blown away by the people who walk the whole length of the train. You can be out of Cowlairs tunnel and people still come walking through the train. Very odd if you are sitting in the second coach and people are banking on the odd seat being spare in the front coach. My best strategy for bagging a table to myself in the morning is to get on one of the rear coaches. Haymarket commuters seem to bunch up the platform for whatever reason, and this behavior is copied at Linlithgow. I've seen commuters walk further than the length of a 7-car 385 set and then have to double back on themselves. Odd sitting in a fairly lightly occupied coach and watching people vaulting past the window to get a seat in a different coach.
Click to expand...

I usually walk to front at Queen St , prefer an airline seat myself , 385s not the best for them , if the train stops at Croy a lot got on at the front there
 
hexagon789

hexagon789

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Ben Conlin said:
Does anyone know if the Carstairs line will be getting 385s at some point and if so what do you think the formations will be because currently it runs with 4 car 380s
Click to expand...

3-car. I'm sure the 4-car will be all kept for the Edinburgh-Glasgow shuttle.

jagardner1984 said:
I suppose after years of overcrowding on services from GLQ, they are looking for a big capacity increase to see them through for the next decade or so. Certainly off peak, dragging 7 (soon to be 8) car sets across the E&G is done presumably to save practical effort in coupling / stabling, but environmentally Etc is totally crazy. Some services would barely fill every other seat / table in a 3 car.
Click to expand...

When it was 170s about 10 years ago I can remember you would get a 3-car off-peak and it would be lucky to be half-full sometimes. In the last two years before electrification every off-peak 3-car at any time I caught one was at least 75-80% full.

It seems to me that off-peak services have got busier and running 7/8-car sets off-peak may well be necessary or at least worthwhile soon enough.
 
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SC318250

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The majority of Carstairs services from/to Edinburgh/Glasgow will be 380 as they run to Ayr
The first one from Edinburgh to Glasgow Central forms the 0930 Ayr which departs Central from platform 1 SX
 
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Ben Conlin

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I thought it’d be a 3 car I didn’t know if they’d make it a 6 car but having been on it before I realise there probably wouldn’t be much point.
 
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Ben Conlin

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I rode the first 385 on the Lanark line today. Very impressive especially when compared the the 320/4 I caught on the return.
 
hexagon789

hexagon789

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Alanko said:
Ooft!

The last time I saw the trolley used, the chap sitting behind me ordered a black coffee and a pack of Mini Cheddars. Quite an odd combination, so it has stuck in my mind since.
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Mmm, I could go that combination, but ScotRail coffee used to be rubbish the only hot drink worth buying was the Aero hot chocolate which they no longer sell :frown:

Hopefully the buffet has better coffee.

But anyway, on my previously frequent travels on the shuttle off-peak I would say:

1. A 3-car 170 was on average 75-80% full
2. Every 3-4 people bought something from the trolley.
 
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Fleetwood Boy

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380101 said:
As far as I'm aware (Im sure the notice is still up in Glaagow Central bothy - it was there on Sunday) 320s are route cleared in the Sectional Appendix but barred from the Inverclyde lines due to an issue with viewing the platform DOO equipment.
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Class 320 just rattled through my station en route to Weymss Bay, so looks like something has changed. This was a 314 diagram till last week.
 
CEN60

CEN60

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385 From Udd at 6:56 this morning for the 1st time (from Lanark) 2 things Scotrail - Turn the heating down & does the driver not know the difference between a 3 & & 6 car set (was way too far up the platform)
 
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SC318250

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Fleetwood Boy said:
Class 320 just rattled through my station en route to Weymss Bay, so looks like something has changed. This was a 314 diagram till last week.
Click to expand...

That was the 0633 Glasgow to Wemyss Bay
The nightstopper at Wemyss Bay last night was 318264
No sign of a 385 on Inverclyde yet, tho there were 2 sitting at Shields
Only a pair of 314s sitting at Shields but the windows on 318264 were that dirty that I couldnt make the numbers out clearly
 
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Fleetwood Boy

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SC318250 said:
That was the 0633 Glasgow to Wemyss Bay
The nightstopper at Wemyss Bay last night was 318264
No sign of a 385 on Inverclyde yet, tho there were 2 sitting at Shields
Only a pair of 314s sitting at Shields but the windows on 318264 were that dirty that I couldnt make the numbers out clearly
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Thank you SC318250, I'll try and get a proper look at Shields Road on my way home - but first glance this morning was that there were surprisingly few 314s sitting around (two being a fairly typical number on most days recently) - unless they've already been shoved out of the way somewhere.
 
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Stopper

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8-car arguably isn’t enough at times on the E-G. Anyone suggesting that this route doesn’t need 8-car working at peak times quite frankly doesn’t have a clue what they are talking about.
 
JLUK144

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Stopper said:
8-car arguably isn’t enough at times on the E-G. Anyone suggesting that this route doesn’t need 8-car working at peak times quite frankly doesn’t have a clue what they are talking about.
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Out of interest, what length do you think the trains should be?
 
hexagon789

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Fleetwood Boy said:
Thank you SC318250, I'll try and get a proper look at Shields Road on my way home - but first glance this morning was that there were surprisingly few 314s sitting around (two being a fairly typical number on most days recently) - unless they've already been shoved out of the way somewhere.
Click to expand...

Saw a single 3-car and two 3-cars coupled passing Shields Road earlier.
 
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snookertam

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Interesting that it looks like there are no class 385s operating on the Cathcart routes now, and all remaining 314 diagrams are concentrated here. Appears there may only be a couple of 318/320 diagrams. Seems a bit odd given that they were trumpeting 'newer trains' at the timetable change.
 
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snookertam

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And just as I say that it seems the 1745 Central to Newton is a 385, and 1751 Cathcart Outer Circle is a 320.
 
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jagardner1984

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Queen street is one of those stations which has a pretty hard capacity limit in its roughly current form (I am including the modernised station once opened). 8 cars is a push in most of the platforms, and impossible in others. And a two track tunnel also has fairly defined limitations of signalling, acceleration etc. Particularly with a lot of Diesel traffic still present.

I have to say my experience in high peak 7 car 385s is that it’s always been possible to get a seat, and in off peak I often have half a carriage to myself, but maybe I’ve just been lucky so far.

I take it they have ordered enough 4 car to run 6 x 8 car per hour in each direction ? Presumably that idea is a non starter without significant investment west of Edinburgh (ie the Almond Chord).

It will be interesting to see in 20 years whether GLQ and GLC can absorb the increase in passengers, or whether some other route into/through the city centre will be required.
 
hexagon789

hexagon789

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jagardner1984 said:
I take it they have ordered enough 4 car to run 6 x 8 car per hour in each direction ? Presumably that idea is a non starter without significant investment west of Edinburgh (ie the Almond Chord).
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24 four-car units. So running six eight-car leaves 12 four-car spare.
 
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