East Midlands franchise won by Abellio

43096 · 15 May 2019

Kneedown said:
Well an entire fleet replacement, right across the board with an end to the antiquated Sprinters and brand, spanking new ac capable stock on the MML sounds pretty revolutionary to me! Maybe us East Midlanders just set our sights too low?

Which is exactly what DfT want: punters to be blinded by the wow factor of promises for the future. Of course, we don’t know what the Stagecoach bid included. What we do know is that Stagecoach have a long record of delivering the basics of a reliable service in terms of operational and engineering competence, and that competence starts from the top of the organisation. Abellio have not demonstrated anything like that.

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whhistle · 16 May 2019

StaffsWCML said:
I would be more convinced if they didn't make such a hash of every other franchise they are currently running. Look at the threads on issues with London NorthWestern, Scot Rail and Great Anglia.

Can you name many other TOCs that don't have problems though?
First is under fire for it's trains, Northern is under fire for the state of it's franchise, Cross Country for the Voyagers, SWR for it's sham of a service, GTR and all that happened the other year, Hull Trains for it's lack of trains... nearly every TOC is under fire in one way or another. You seem to only focus on Abellio.

Perhaps you don't have enough experience of other TOCs, or simply set your sights too high for rail companies.

But we all understand you don't like Abellio... that's all you have said in this discussion.
Perhaps try and bring something new?

StaffsWCML · 16 May 2019

whhistle said:
Can you name many other TOCs that don't have problems though?
First is under fire for it's trains, Northern is under fire for the state of it's franchise, Cross Country for the Voyagers, SWR for it's sham of a service, GTR and all that happened the other year, Hull Trains for it's lack of trains... nearly every TOC is under fire in one way or another. You seem to only focus on Abellio.

Perhaps you don't have enough experience of other TOCs, or simply set your sights too high for rail companies.

But we all understand you don't like Abellio... that's all you have said in this discussion.
Perhaps try and bring something new?

I have experience of those franchises also. I have never claimed any of those service are great. I have listed who I have considered to be the stronger operators but by no means perfect. My point is that Franchising as a system is broken. Of course all operators have problems.

Why is it to high an expectation to expect trains to turn up (mostly) on time and be clean? Lets start by getting the basics right first. I don't really care if a train is new if it has dirty seats and rubbish on the floors, I don't care if a train is new if it is 15 minutes late, I don't care if a train operator provides e-tickets or WIFI or any other gimmicks if the train is late and/or dirty or if I get kicked of at a station I have no intention of being at because they decide to miss some of the route 'to make up time' because the are so late (this kind of rubbish frequently experienced is not on any statistics either, its not a cancellation and by missing part of the route they are becoming less late fudging the figures).

I don't understand why people are sticking up for a company who is providing extreme mediocracy an nothing else.

We all understand you are prepared to accept mediocre TOCs. Perhaps you can also add something new? Or explain why customers (paying a small fortune) just sit back and accept mediocre train operators because the government wants to palm off its pension liabilities?

Lets hope they deliver a service for a change.

Deafdoggie · 17 May 2019

I have found London Midland services have improved since Abellio took over. Weather connected or a coincidence, who can say? London Midland were far too keen to go direct to Crewe from Stafford, missing out the Stoke wobble. Since Abellio took over I have not had any delay repay!

Bletchleyite · 17 May 2019

Deafdoggie said:
I have found London Midland services have improved since Abellio took over. Weather connected or a coincidence, who can say? London Midland were far too keen to go direct to Crewe from Stafford, missing out the Stoke wobble. Since Abellio took over I have not had any delay repay!

I've noticed the service to be exactly the same as it was, with some gains like increased barrier line staffing (meaning longer availability of toilets etc and fewer undesirables on stations). The publicity side is nowhere near as good as LM, but that is arguably far less important to a primarily commuter operation than just getting the basics right.

It also appears Abellio are willing to cough up for getting the expensive 350/2s out on a weekend, with 4 car operation on Saturdays and Sundays south of Northampton near disappearing at the timetable change.

That said, I still think the first working day after the timetable change is going to be an absolute mess.

cjmillsnun · 17 May 2019

Not had any direct experience of Abellio however I know that many commuters on SWR would gladly have Stagecoach back in charge.

59CosG95 · 17 May 2019

cjmillsnun said:
Not had any direct experience of Abellio however I know that many commuters on SWR would gladly have Stagecoach back in charge.

Amen to that.

Amaroussi · 17 May 2019

cjmillsnun said:
Not had any direct experience of Abellio however I know that many commuters on SWR would gladly have Stagecoach back in charge.

Isn't that a consortium of First (70%) and MTR (30%)?

cactustwirly · 17 May 2019

cjmillsnun said:
Not had any direct experience of Abellio however I know that many commuters on SWR would gladly have Stagecoach back in charge.

But aren't a lot of the problems infrastructure related?
Not sure Stagecoach would have been much better, the Franchise Agreement is a lot different to the old SWT.

centraltrains · 17 May 2019

Deafdoggie said:
I have found London Midland services have improved since Abellio took over. Weather connected or a coincidence, who can say? London Midland were far too keen to go direct to Crewe from Stafford, missing out the Stoke wobble. Since Abellio took over I have not had any delay repay!

I have sadly had the contrary experience; abellio for Snow Hill lines seem to have a delay recovery policy of running nothing, and sending everything to Tyseley until the peak. I'd love London Midland back...
Do you use them mainly for commuting or leisure (wonder if that (guessed from observation) strategy does generally apply to abellio)?

[Might be getting too off topic posting comparisons of how abellio run other franchises?]

700007 · 17 May 2019

Amaroussi said:
Isn't that a consortium of First (70%) and MTR (30%)?

Indeed but MTR provide only financial and legal assistance to the franchise, otherwise all of the show is practically done by First and therefore MTR has no bearing on the way the day to day operation is run.

Deafdoggie · 17 May 2019

I use them for leisure use, but quite often. LM couldn't normally wait to get a delayed train direct from Stafford to Crewe, whereas Abellio seem to tolerate quite a long delay without going for that. Maybe I have been lucky (or was unlucky with LM) but a definite improvement in my experience.

Malcolmffc · 17 May 2019

59CosG95 said:
Amen to that.

Certainly not in my case. I’m looking froward to the new trains that Stagecoach didn’t think we deserved.

hwl · 17 May 2019

Malcolmffc said:
Certainly not in my case. I’m looking froward to the new trains that Stagecoach didn’t think we deserved.

In my case I agree (as an SWR Metro user) - though other longer distance SWR uses may disagree!

Dr Hoo · 17 May 2019

With reference to post #933, skipping stops, short turn backs, etc. ARE captured as performance ‘fails’. This has been the case ever since PPM was first used as a metric.

HH · 19 May 2019

cactustwirly said:
But aren't a lot of the problems infrastructure related?
Not sure Stagecoach would have been much better, the Franchise Agreement is a lot different to the old SWT.

Indeed, there are problems down to the re-modelling of Waterloo, which would have affected any operator. That be can laid straight at the door of NR.

jamesontheroad · 19 May 2019

I work one or two days a week in Nottingham, alongside colleagues who also commute in once or twice a week.

Like me, they rely on Advance train fares to keep travel costs down, with the majority of them going against the rush hour flow, out of London in the morning back in the early evening. Several have reported to me that since January, they've struggled to find the lower tiers of Advance fares on the same trains on which they were finding them easily before Christmas. One suggested that with the end of the franchise in sight, Stagecoach and turning the screws and milking TOC-specific fares for the last few months.

cactustwirly · 19 May 2019

jamesontheroad said:
I work one or two days a week in Nottingham, alongside colleagues who also commute in once or twice a week.

Like me, they rely on Advance train fares to keep travel costs down, with the majority of them going against the rush hour flow, out of London in the morning back in the early evening. Several have reported to me that since January, they've struggled to find the lower tiers of Advance fares on the same trains on which they were finding them easily before Christmas. One suggested that with the end of the franchise in sight, Stagecoach and turning the screws and milking TOC-specific fares for the last few months.

Yes, this is very consistent with my experience with EMT advances

Meerkat · 19 May 2019

jamesontheroad said:
One suggested that with the end of the franchise in sight, Stagecoach and turning the screws and milking TOC-specific fares for the last few months.

Are you suggesting that previously they were being charitable and selling tickets for less than the yield maximising price?

cactustwirly · 19 May 2019

Yesterdays 1245 Nottingham - London had no catering whatsoever on the journey.
Stagecoach can't get the basics right either.

krus_aragon · 19 May 2019

Meerkat said:
Are you suggesting that previously they were being charitable and selling tickets for less than the yield maximising price?

Or perhaps they're now less concerned about offering the low "headline" fares as found in adverts, as they're not bothered about repeat custom after they hand over the franchise.

Kite159 · 19 May 2019

cactustwirly said:
Yesterdays 1245 Nottingham - London had no catering whatsoever on the journey.
Stagecoach can't get the basics right either.

Or was it the outside catering company being short staffed and being unable to man the trolley?

Hence why most sensible people buy food/drink at the station before hand, rather than paying over the odds for food/drink from the train itself.

londonmidland · 19 May 2019

Standard Class catering is run by Rail Gourmet, whilst First Class catering is run by East Midlands Trains staff themselves. That is why sometime you do not get catering in standard class, due to the unavailability of the gourmet host.

grumpyoldman01 · 19 May 2019

If the journey described actually was "yesterday", it was made on a Saturday.

My experience is that there is no at seat service in first on Saturdays at this time of day, the only "service" being provided from a trolley located in the buffet area; all passengers need to walk to the buffet, and first class passengers get free teas/coffees by presenting their rail tickets to the member of staff on duty. My experience has been that this person wears a Rail Gourmet uniform.

Hairy Bear · 19 May 2019

grumpyoldman01 said:
If the journey described actually was "yesterday", it was made on a Saturday.

My experience is that there is no at seat service in first on Saturdays at this time of day, the only "service" being provided from a trolley located in the buffet area; all passengers need to walk to the buffet, and first class passengers get free teas/coffees by presenting their rail tickets to the member of staff on duty. My experience has been that this person wears a Rail Gourmet uniform.

Correct. Never buy a first class ticket for the weekend. Buy a standard then pay for the upgrade (weekend first) if you desire it.

Kite159 · 19 May 2019

Hairy Bear said:
Correct. Never buy a first class ticket for the weekend. Buy a standard then pay for the upgrade (weekend first) if you desire it.

Unless the first class advance is cheaper than the standard class advance (or a couple quid more expensive and you know from previous experience it will be a busy train)

Bletchleyite · 19 May 2019

Kite159 said:
Unless the first class advance is cheaper than the standard class advance (or a couple quid more expensive and you know from previous experience it will be a busy train)

Indeed. Better simply to check if Weekend First will be cheaper or not.

cactustwirly · 19 May 2019

grumpyoldman01 said:
If the journey described actually was "yesterday", it was made on a Saturday.

My experience is that there is no at seat service in first on Saturdays at this time of day, the only "service" being provided from a trolley located in the buffet area; all passengers need to walk to the buffet, and first class passengers get free teas/coffees by presenting their rail tickets to the member of staff on duty. My experience has been that this person wears a Rail Gourmet uniform.

Correct it was a Saturday

mallard · 20 May 2019

StaffsWCML said:
I don't understand why people are sticking up for a company who is providing extreme mediocracy an nothing else.

Quite right, I also don't know why people are sticking up for Stagecoach.

StaffsWCML · 20 May 2019

mallard said:
Quite right, I also don't know why people are sticking up for Stagecoach.

I don't think they have been. Just saying that they are slightly better at operating a basic train services than many of the other options available.

This is the state of our railways.

East Midlands franchise won by Abellio

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