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Remaining in station for overnight connections

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TUC

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Some stations, such as Leeds and Huddersfield, that have a limited number of services operating during the night, have signs advising that the station will open a set number of minutes before the relevant service.

If one has a though ticket involving interchange at one of these stations onto such a service (see below for example), what is the position regarding being able to remain within the station whilst waiting for the connection?
 

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Termy

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A few years ago, I was asked to leave Cardiff Central when I had an overnight stay. So my personal experience is... no, you'd be expected to leave. But that may have been wrong.
 

TUC

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It does raise potential public safety concerns if people unexpectedly find themselves unable to remain in a station. For example, if a woman travelling alone found herself shut out of a station for two hours overnight.
 

Tomnick

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It does raise potential public safety concerns if people unexpectedly find themselves unable to remain in a station. For example, if a woman travelling alone found herself shut out of a station for two hours overnight.
At a large station where the public are routinely evicted once the last departures have gone (although there’s no physical barrier preventing access), I’ve seen a waiting room left open for vulnerable passengers on more than one occasion, with the station supervisor and security staff keeping an occasional eye on them. I’m pretty sure that all of these were as a result of missing last trains etc. rather than a planned overnight stay too.
 

A Challenge

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This is slightly different surely, as it is a connection from a last train arriving at 02:36 onto one at 03:30, not an overnight wait?
 

Glenn1969

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The connection given above is only one hour. Surely the OP would be permitted to remain on Leeds station that length of time
 

Brush 4

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Interesting, is there no such thing as a 24 hr station any more? I've spent the night at York, Doncaster, Crewe, Birmingham New Street (BHM), Bristol Temple Meads (BRI) and Waterloo. All had at least 1 buffet open. This was 70's and 80's.

Only last summer, I spent half the night at Cologne Hbf. between a Berlin ICE and a Brussels connection. It was busy all night and had 2 or 3 outlets open.
 
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johnnychips

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Is Sheffield station closed at night? I have a memory of a sign directing people to a side door for the TPE airport train in the middle of the night, yet I thought the footbridge was a right of way to Park Hill flats.
 

Iskra

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The connection given above is only one hour. Surely the OP would be permitted to remain on Leeds station that length of time

No, you get kicked out and let back in when a train is due.

But the railway industry should make it so that it is safe that she can.

The railway doesn't have a magic wand for making town/city centres safe at night. Railway stations are not overnight shelters. If you don't feel comfortable being in a city centre at night, you shouldn't put yourself in that situation.

Stations used to be open overnight, so there must be a reason why they no longer open. Personally, I'm not surprised they stopped it at Leeds as it was chaos.
 

LAX54

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LEEDS STN:

Opening hours
Monday - Friday 24 Hours a Day
Saturday 24 Hours a Day
Sunday 24 Hours a Day
 

etr221

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The railway doesn't have a magic wand for making town/city centres safe at night. Railway stations are not overnight shelters. If you don't feel comfortable being in a city centre at night, you shouldn't put yourself in that situation.
I am not putting myself in that situation: the railway is.

I would agree that stations are not overnight shelters for the general public; but bona fide passengers, holding tickets, should be able to access and wait on the station.

What is the position over passengers changing trains who have tickets not permitting break of journey?

I wonder what the various companies' safety cases have to say on the matter.
 

Iskra

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I am not putting myself in that situation: the railway is.

I would agree that stations are not overnight shelters for the general public; but bona fide passengers, holding tickets, should be able to access and wait on the station.

What is the position over passengers changing trains who have tickets not permitting break of journey?

I wonder what the various companies' safety cases have to say on the matter.

They take reasonable measures to ensure your safety. What they don't offer is a personal baby sitting service. You are choosing to use the railway at that time.

In an ideal world, yes access should be 24/7, but previously at Leeds you had numerous staff, security, cleaners and police constantly occupied dealing with drunks and the homeless. Now they have 1 or 2 security staff to let you in. The police are now free to deal with more important issues. I can see why they made that decision.
 

etr221

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They take reasonable measures to ensure your safety. What they don't offer is a personal baby sitting service. You are choosing to use the railway at that time.
I am choosing to use the railway, not to have to hang around a strange city in the small hours. I am not after a personal baby sitting service, merely to use the facilities the railway provides for its passengers waiting for their trains.

Being told to hang around outside the station in a strange city is the railway's choice, and, given the description of the other people likely to be around, not something I would regard as a reasonable measure to ensure my safety.
 

JonathanH

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LEEDS STN:

Opening hours
Monday - Friday 24 Hours a Day
Saturday 24 Hours a Day
Sunday 24 Hours a Day

It used to be possible to stay in the concourse area at Leeds overnight but not on the platforms. A vulnerable passenger may be allowed to wait in the waiting room on platform 1 but the definition of 'vulnerable' is likely to be quite strict.
 

JonathanH

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LEEDS STN:

Opening hours
Monday - Friday 24 Hours a Day
Saturday 24 Hours a Day
Sunday 24 Hours a Day

It used to be possible to stay in the concourse area at Leeds overnight but not on the platforms. A vulnerable passenger may be allowed to wait in the waiting room on platform 1 but the definition of 'vulnerable' is likely to be quite strict.
 

61653 HTAFC

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LEEDS STN:

Opening hours
Monday - Friday 24 Hours a Day
Saturday 24 Hours a Day
Sunday 24 Hours a Day

Well, it is open, it's just entry is strictly controlled...
It used to be fine sitting on the concourse until the first morning train, as long as you behaved and weren't so intoxicated that you might endanger yourself. I'm generally too old for that nowadays but if I were to try it I'd expect to be, at the very least, gently encouraged to find somewhere else to pass the time.
 

DanDaDriver

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It used to be possible to stay in the concourse area at Leeds overnight but not on the platforms. A vulnerable passenger may be allowed to wait in the waiting room on platform 1 but the definition of 'vulnerable' is likely to be quite strict.


I remember spending a night in Leeds station concourse some years ago, and surprisingly comfortable it was too. Although I suspect the beer blanket helped.
 

JonathanH

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LEEDS STN:

Opening hours
Monday - Friday 24 Hours a Day
Saturday 24 Hours a Day
Sunday 24 Hours a Day

It used to be possible to stay in the concourse area at Leeds overnight but not on the platforms - I have done it twice - once between the last arrival from Kings Cross and first Carlisle train then again between the Kings Cross arrival and the first Manchester train. A vulnerable passenger may be allowed to wait in the waiting room on platform 1 but the definition of 'vulnerable' is likely to be extremely strict - eg someone there at fault of the railway rather than someone choosing to make an overnight connection.
 

Condor7

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I must say this does surprise me. Taking Leeds as an example, a station I am familiar with, it is very busy up to 1am and from 5am. In that four hours there are at least eight scheduled passenger trains so on average one every half hour, which is more than some staffed stations during the day. Even Huddersfield has on average over one scheduled train an hour during that time.

Surely with such frequency a station should have adequate staff or at the very least a designated monitored waiting room. If they can do it during daylight hours why not when it’s dark?
 

_toommm_

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Is Sheffield station closed at night? I have a memory of a sign directing people to a side door for the TPE airport train in the middle of the night, yet I thought the footbridge was a right of way to Park Hill flats.

It closes after the last train departs, then from about midnight there's security and EMT staff directing folk out the main entrance, as the side entrance past M&S to the taxi rank is closed. The top entrance to the trams is, IME, closed before the last train leaves.

IIRC, the main station entrance only opens for the 03:25 to Manchester Airport, and opens at around 20 minute before.
 

_toommm_

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Interesting, is there no such thing as a 24 hr station any more? I've spent the night at York, Doncaster, Crewe, Birmingham New Street (BHM), Bristol Temple Meads (BRI) and Waterloo. All had at least 1 buffet open. This was 70's and 80's.

Only last summer, I spent half the night at Cologne Hbf. between a Berlin ICE and a Brussels connection. It was busy all night and had 2 or 3 outlets open.

The concourse of Manchester Piccadilly is open 24/7, but only the lower end. I was forced to do an all-nighter there as my last train was cancelled and they refused to provide transport or accommodation.

Surprisingly windy as they keep all the platform doors open...
 

skyhigh

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They take reasonable measures to ensure your safety. What they don't offer is a personal baby sitting service. You are choosing to use the railway at that time.

In an ideal world, yes access should be 24/7, but previously at Leeds you had numerous staff, security, cleaners and police constantly occupied dealing with drunks and the homeless. Now they have 1 or 2 security staff to let you in. The police are now free to deal with more important issues. I can see why they made that decision.

When did that change? As far as I'm aware, access to the platforms is restricted overnight but the concourse is still open
 

Iskra

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When did that change? As far as I'm aware, access to the platforms is restricted overnight but the concourse is still open

Sometime in the last couple of years. Couldn't say exactly when I'm afraid, I just remember turning up one night and you couldn't get in and there was a bouncer manning the door, opening it only when trains were due. The Maccy D's on the concourse used to be 24hr, which was a major attraction for drunk people; now it's 0500-0000.
 

skyhigh

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Sometime in the last couple of years. Couldn't say exactly when I'm afraid, I just remember turning up one night and you couldn't get in and there was a bouncer manning the door, opening it only when trains were due. The Maccy D's on the concourse used to be 24hr, which was a major attraction for drunk people; now it's 0500-0000.

Ah I understand now - there was a trial a while back where access was restricted but that doesn't happen any more. Access to the platforms is strictly restricted between midnight-ish and 0430, but the concourse is open. As long as you're not causing any trouble and you've got a good reason to be there (e.g. a 90 minute connection overnight) I don't see any reason you wouldn't be able to stay. Certainly when I did a night shift when I used to work at the station, until the beginning of the year, that was acceptable.
 

185143

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I spent most of a night on Preston station back in February when the sleeper was cancelled. Staff kept a waiting room open for me, and one of the cleaners came in to check the few of us were either waiting for the sleeper or the last Manchester.

I rather got the impression they locked up (normally) and kicked everyone out. The cleaners came in and out every now and again sweeping up, but I was largely left to it. She did come back and make sure I got on the train, but that seemed to be more making sure I was awake rather than actively kicking me out!
 
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