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West Lothian buses

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alangla

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They’re introducing new services, presumably aimed at the commuter market, that serve Gogarburn (good) but not the Gyle? Shank’s pony from the Mayberry shell garage I take it?
Also amazed at it not running to the bus station or Regent Road. Might do ok with the free pass brigade but otherwise I can’t see anyone in Utrecht worrying about losing season ticket sales. Certainly looks like commercial suicide but I’d be happy to be proved wrong. If the decision was to end short of Central Edinburgh, I’d probably have called at Edinburgh Gateway for a complimentary tram connection into town then gone round the Gyle to terminate at Edinburgh Park station, but I’m not Lothian and presumably they know what they are doing
 
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mark-h

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alangla said:
I’d probably have called at Edinburgh Gateway for a complimentary tram connection into town
Click to expand...

The Gyle centre may be a better place to connect to the tram (and local buses), especially if the bus stances are moved closer to the tram as a result of the centre's expansion plans.
 
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Darklord8899

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With regards to the Gyle and the new EX1/EX2:
It's a balancing act between how many people from Bathgate/Linlithgow want to go to the Gyle v Edinburgh City Centre.

Diverting a bus from A8, Gogar Roundabout, round the Gyle and back on to A8 will add an extra 10-20 mins (especially at peak times) on to a journey - not attractive for passengers travelling from Edinburgh. (Also first did try running the 38A to/from Edinburgh via Gyle, which didn't last very long IIRC)

Again, I suspect this is also the reason the services will terminate at The Exchange (high concentration of large offices there) Princess St is a nightmare at peak times and adds extra time to a journey .... there are already LCB services running to east end of city centre and not to mention the numerous LB services which you can onward travel with accross the rest of city centre.
So to me, it seems fairly sensible that the services will avoid Gyle and terminate to west side of city centre.

How these services will do I'm not sure, plenty issues to contend with... running against areas with train service and problem traffic areas of A8, Gogar, Maybury, Corstorphine, especially at peak times, or even off peak, one accident in those areas can cause havoc for traffic
 
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alchemy

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Jordan Adam said:
Can you imagine having a fleet where 5 in 7 buses are 5 years old or newer..... GB91 likes to ignore the massive amount of investment in the area, and when he does pay attention to it it's always "well they could have done this, they could have done that". He has the cheek to label others bias when nearly all his posts are critical of First and he's just been exposed for lying and making false accusations about First. It really has been quite an entertaining day!

That aside i do think First should be doing more at this point, extending the 600 and repainting/allocation E400MMC's to it is a massive waste of resources.
Click to expand...
Lying?
Surely talking about two different but similar scenarios
 
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TheEastCoaster

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Darklord8899 said:
With regards to the Gyle and the new EX1/EX2:
It's a balancing act between how many people from Bathgate/Linlithgow want to go to the Gyle v Edinburgh City Centre.

Diverting a bus from A8, Gogar Roundabout, round the Gyle and back on to A8 will add an extra 10-20 mins (especially at peak times) on to a journey - not attractive for passengers travelling from Edinburgh. (Also first did try running the 38A to/from Edinburgh via Gyle, which didn't last very long IIRC)

Again, I suspect this is also the reason the services will terminate at The Exchange (high concentration of large offices there) Princess St is a nightmare at peak times and adds extra time to a journey .... there are already LCB services running to east end of city centre and not to mention the numerous LB services which you can onward travel with accross the rest of city centre.
So to me, it seems fairly sensible that the services will avoid Gyle and terminate to west side of city centre.

How these services will do I'm not sure, plenty issues to contend with... running against areas with train service and problem traffic areas of A8, Gogar, Maybury, Corstorphine, especially at peak times, or even off peak, one accident in those areas can cause havoc for traffic
Click to expand...

While I do agree Princes Street is a nightmare at Peak Time it’s definitely going to make the Ex1/Ex2 lose out by not serving it, even via George Street to St Andrew Square would be fine. It’s just the Exchange is not the first place I would think as a Terminus, even Semple Street made more sense for the 124 since it was a one way loop back to Lothian Road.

I just hope the fares are the same as normal LCB services :D
 
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Jordan Adam

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TheEastCoaster

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Right so both registrations come under Lothian Buses Limited and not Lothian Country Buses Limited, which was abit odd, and the Ex1 is supposedly terminating at the railway station in Bathgate!
 
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RomeoCharlie71

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overthewater said:
Where did you find that out?
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The EX1 and EX2 have been received, but not yet registered at VOSA, hence why they do not show in the "view" tab. You need to search for them. You'll see there that the EX1 and EX2 are denoted as "new", not "registered", and it is PM0000002 (aka Lothian Buses) who have registered them.
 
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overthewater

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ross4122 said:
The EX1 and EX2 have been received, but not yet registered at VOSA, hence why they do not show in the "view" tab. You need to search for them. You'll see there that the EX1 and EX2 are denoted as "new", not "registered", and it is PM0000002 (aka Lothian Buses) who have registered them.
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GOLD Stars for your good self!

TheEastCoaster said:
Right so both registrations come under Lothian Buses Limited and not Lothian Country Buses Limited, which was abit odd, and the Ex1 is supposedly terminating at the railway station in Bathgate!
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Close it says: Bathgate Old Railway Station Bus Terminal
 
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Big Ralphie

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That's the ex1 and ex2 official registered with the traffic commissioner still think it should have run right into city centre say st.Andrews square to pick up more passengers
 
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In Focus

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Looking at these EX services obviously designed to go into competition with Train as First dont actually carry many from Bathgate or Linlithgow all the way to Edinburgh.
on the Bathgate one you just know once it joins M8 at j3A at peak time which would be its main time for £££ it will join a tailback of traffic on 99% of workday mornings, take it upwards of 30mins to get to Junction 1 then negotiate the traffic in Edinburgh all in a journey of an hour give or take , compare that to the 20/25 mins on train and you can see the problem without even talking about fares and convenience of Edinburgh Park ,Haymarket and Waverley stations.
After peak it may attract the concessions but will that be enough to make it feasible?

I think they have an uphill struggle to compete in West Lothian if the previous Ex1 operated by First in the pre train days is a guide they have little chance of even the slightest impact on train and if I recall Linlithgow had an X30 that didnt quite set the World on fire either .
100% appreciation for giving it a go though, I guess if you dont try you wont know .
 
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Siemens Trains

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Anyway, terminating these new services at The Exchange does seem a bit strange to me as well. You'd think a market would exist via some longer city centre route, if not directly along Princes Street itself.
 
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TheEastCoaster

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Seems my spelling mistakes were edited, didn’t think it would of caused a war on here haha!

Siemens Trains said:
Anyway, terminating these new services at The Exchange does seem a bit strange to me as well. You'd think a market would exist via some longer city centre route, if not directly along Princes Street itself.
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I’m just thinking of how the bus will return to the other side to start service, a one way loop via Castle Terrace, Bread Street and then Usher Hall? In fact why not have the service terminate on Castle Terrace? I’m sure there’s an abandoned bus stop along there or at least nearby.
 
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Train368

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The EX1 is a good idea because the trains are expensive and unreliable enough that some commuter's may decide to give the express coach a go especially if it's cheaper and more reliable. The issue is it is only serving one town (Bathgate) and it is not serving Edinburgh City Centre by going into the bus station or St Andrew's Square. Not sure if just serving Bathgate will get the coach many passengers especially if it doesn't serve Princess Street.

I think the reason it's only serving Bathgate is because they only have 8 coaches, it may be 4 coaches each route and maybe that's just enough to get the service to Bathgate.
 
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Train368 said:
The EX1 is a good idea because the trains are expensive and unreliable enough that some commuter's may decide to give the express coach a go especially if it's cheaper and more reliable. The issue is it is only serving one town (Bathgate) and it is not serving Edinburgh City Centre by going into the bus station or St Andrew's Square. Not sure if just serving Bathgate will get the coach many passengers especially if it doesn't serve Princess Street.

I think the reason it's only serving Bathgate is because they only have 8 coaches, it may be 4 coaches each route and maybe that's just enough to get the service to Bathgate.
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Well I guess that’s what service changes are for! If the demand is there and I know it will have it! I could see an extension to St ANDREW square! as for the West Lothian End, like I suggested I think having the Express out of Harthill would of been better. But one step at a time, plus for those in Armadale and Blackridge who want to use the service could get a LothianWest/ Network ticket to Bathgate to use the service and connect there. Granted the fares have not confirmed to be in line with the other LCB services though it would be silly if it wasent, again I assume the only confirmation would be for the Linlithgow service which I still think will be Zone B
 
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smtglasgow

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Think we can safely assume that these EX services aren’t going to last long in their present format. Dumping pensioners at the Exchange when all they want is a couple of hours in Jenners isn’t going to help the off-peak trade. What’s the betting that we see the Linlithgow service cut right back and an extended Bathgate service (staring back at Armadale or Whitburn) by the autumn?

I know Lothian seem to have a sure touch within Edinburgh, but they seem to keep making unforced errors in West Lothian. Did nobody look at First’s August 2018 network and think, ‘that looks good – maybe we should just copy that’? Do they have anyone with local knowledge working for them?

I was in Livingston on Friday afternoon and the loadings were maybe 60:40 to First – although there were a few well-loaded LCB services. As ever, it’s whichever bus gets to the stop first that gets the business. First must be seeing a big drop in revenue, but I doubt it’s anywhere near critical yet.
 
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In Focus

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Train368 said:
The EX1 is a good idea because the trains are expensive and unreliable enough that some commuter's may decide to give the express coach a go especially if it's cheaper and more reliable. The issue is it is only serving one town (Bathgate) and it is not serving Edinburgh City Centre by going into the bus station or St Andrew's Square. Not sure if just serving Bathgate will get the coach many passengers especially if it doesn't serve Princess Street.

I think the reason it's only serving Bathgate is because they only have 8 coaches, it may be 4 coaches each route and maybe that's just enough to get the service to Bathgate.
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What's a "good idea " about sitting on a bus that in 35/40 minutes will have you half way to a remote part of Edinburgh ?
When in 25 minutes you can be sat in middle of town on train!
The train from Bathgate is neither unreliable or expensive .
 
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A330Alex

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TheEastCoaster said:
Granted the fares have not confirmed to be in line with the other LCB services though it would be silly if it wasent, again I assume the only confirmation would be for the Linlithgow service which I still think will be Zone B
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I can't see it being the same price since they've gone to the bother of creating a new brand for it. I could imagine it just being a supplement however (e.g. £2 extra to use EX services etc) rather than a whole new fare scale
In Focus said:
What's a "good idea " about sitting on a bus that in 35/40 minutes will have you half way to a remote part of Edinburgh ?
When in 25 minutes you can be sat in middle of town on train!
The train from Bathgate is neither unreliable or expensive .
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Ah yes, the barren wasteland that is Lothian Road. How will people possibly cope with the 4 minute walk to Princes Street?!
 
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In Focus

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A330Alex said:
Ah yes, the barren wasteland that is Lothian Road. How will people possibly cope with the 4 minute walk to Princes Street?!
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Missing the point completely , and I'd say 4 minutes if your fit , 10 if your elderly and in the rain ,not pleasant at all .
 
TheGrandWazoo

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smtglasgow said:
Think we can safely assume that these EX services aren’t going to last long in their present format. Dumping pensioners at the Exchange when all they want is a couple of hours in Jenners isn’t going to help the off-peak trade. What’s the betting that we see the Linlithgow service cut right back and an extended Bathgate service (staring back at Armadale or Whitburn) by the autumn?

I know Lothian seem to have a sure touch within Edinburgh, but they seem to keep making unforced errors in West Lothian. Did nobody look at First’s August 2018 network and think, ‘that looks good – maybe we should just copy that’? Do they have anyone with local knowledge working for them?

I was in Livingston on Friday afternoon and the loadings were maybe 60:40 to First – although there were a few well-loaded LCB services. As ever, it’s whichever bus gets to the stop first that gets the business. First must be seeing a big drop in revenue, but I doubt it’s anywhere near critical yet.
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Interesting post, especially the observations on the ground.

It's an interesting point about the Lothian moves especially the new expresses. I could see the logic of much of their new network (though not all) but I'm bemused by the EX routes. For commuters, the journey times are fairly prohibitive; are you going to lose an hour of your day, every day and for what price? Off peak will be dominated by pass users but if you're stopping short of the key central traffic objectives, why will people use it? On top of that, it's an extension of their operations with a relatively high operating cost (with new fleet).

I don't doubt First are hurting and losing money. I expected LCB to lose money at this stage (and the business plan reflects this doubtless) but this is a very bold and yet outwardly baffling move.
 
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TheGrandWazoo said:
don't doubt First are hurting and losing money. I expected LCB to lose money at this stage (and the business plan reflects this doubtless) but this is a very bold and yet outwardly baffling move.
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Both companies will be operating at a loss and that wont change as long as 2 operators of this size try to milk WL ,just not enough passengers to accommodate this amount of buses.
 
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