Calder Valley running times.

superkev · 19 May 2019

Talking to a former Steam man a while back he said they could do Bradford to Man vic in under the hour admittedly with few stops.
I'd like to compare the current timetable with a steam timetable.
Anyone help?
Sad to see the new times introduced today with despite the new signalling no improvement in journey times or stops at the 16million Low Moor station.
K

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30907 · 19 May 2019

New signalling doesn't usually make trains go faster

To the main point:
https://timetableworld.com/index.php
has the 1947 LMS timetable, and you want table 147; it also has 1962 (table 117) but the core service at least was dmu by then.
At a quick glance, 70 minutes non-stop might have been possible, though timings might have improved in the 50s.

edwin_m · 19 May 2019

The new signalling has increased permitted speeds in some places but reduced them elsewhere. As far as I can tell from running journey time models the net effect is very close to zero.

superkev · 19 May 2019

30907 said:
New signalling doesn't usually make trains go faster
To the main point:
https://timetableworld.com/index.php
has the 1947 LMS timetable, and you want table 147; it also has 1962 (table 117) but the core service at least was dmu by then.
At a quick glance, 70 minutes non-stop might have been possible, though timings might have improved in the 50s.

Thank you.
Re the new signalling its noticable that at Sowerby trains now seem to be waiting time sometimes for 4 or 5 mins. Could have been used to do the promised stop at low moor.
K

Welshman · 19 May 2019

Whilst I cannot remember any fast steam timings, I do remember that after the line was turned over to dmus in 1962, one or two of the x30 departures from Bradford Exchange reached Manchester Victoria in 61 minutes, and that the fastest train of the day, the 4.30pm SX was scheduled into Victoria at 5.23pm. with stops only at Halifax and Rochdale.
https://timetableworld.com/book_viewer.php?id=2&section_id=-1

superkev · 20 May 2019

Welshman said:
Whilst I cannot remember any fast steam timings, I do remember that after the line was turned over to dmus in 1962, one or two of the x30 departures from Bradford Exchange reached Manchester Victoria in 61 minutes, and that the fastest train of the day, the 4.30pm SX was scheduled into Victoria at 5.23pm. with stops only at Halifax and Rochdale.
https://timetableworld.com/book_viewer.php?id=2&section_id=-1

Thanks. Those Calder valley dmu units used were superb.
Looking at today's times the fastest Bradford int to Man vic is 60 min exact with 4 stops.
57 years of progress for just 1 min faster although 2 more stops. Such a small return on all that new signalling and some 90mph track sections along with 90mph rather than 70mph dmus.
Very disappointing.
K

thejuggler · 20 May 2019

superkev said:
Thank you.
Re the new signalling its noticable that at Sowerby trains now seem to be waiting time sometimes for 4 or 5 mins. Could have been used to do the promised stop at low moor.
K

It can be a similar case at New Pudsey on west bound services. A 3-4 minute dwell time isn't unknown.

37201xoIM · 20 May 2019

December 2019 timetable change should see the linespeed enhancements delivered in autum 2018 (sic!) translate into actual booked journey-time improvements. This should be improved further by most of the trains being booked for 195s (the York - Blackpool, Leeds - Chester and Leeds - Man Vic), so even some improvement on the Bradford - Leeds section which has not seen LSIs.

Hopefully this should end the absurd mismatch between booked sectional running times and reality, where trains from MCV to Bradford (such as the 1Uxx pattern) had about 10 minutes excess time, making the unforgivable curse of early departures all too common an occurrence.

I understand that current plans will see a Leeds - Hebden time of a respectable 41 minutes on the YRK-BPN from December.

By the way, west/south of Bradford (Mill Lane Jn) it's not just been a resignalling and recontrolling: there are significant LSIs that have been delivered. My favourite was going through Low Moor on a Friday at a maximum 55mph and on the following Monday doing it at 80mph!

Llama · 21 May 2019

It's possible to do Bradford to Victoria or vice versa in ~50 minutes with calls at Halifax, Hebden, Todmorden & Rochdale since the resignalling and line speed increases. Timetables are very slack. Obviously it needs a train which is already delayed (so no waiting for booked time at stations) and gets a clear run with a decent (preferably 158) unit and a keen driver/guard. Once those planets align it's possible.

northernchris · 21 May 2019

There has been a slight decrease in journey times of what is now the Chester - Leeds service between Victoria and Bradford

superkev · 21 May 2019

37201xoIM said:
December 2019 timetable change should see the linespeed enhancements delivered in autum 2018 (sic!) translate into actual booked journey-time improvements. This should be improved further by most of the trains being booked for 195s (the York - Blackpool, Leeds - Chester and Leeds - Man Vic), so even some improvement on the Bradford - Leeds section which has not seen LSIs.

Hopefully this should end the absurd mismatch between booked sectional running times and reality, where trains from MCV to Bradford (such as the 1Uxx pattern) had about 10 minutes excess time, making the unforgivable curse of early departures all too common an occurrence.

I understand that current plans will see a Leeds - Hebden time of a respectable 41 minutes on the YRK-BPN from December.

By the way, west/south of Bradford (Mill Lane Jn) it's not just been a resignalling and recontrolling: there are significant LSIs that have been delivered. My favourite was going through Low Moor on a Friday at a maximum 55mph and on the following Monday doing it at 80mph!

Its always "jam tomorrow" with the railways. I was always taught to be a successful company you had to be slick which with railways I'll let people judge for themselves.
As for Low moor at 85mph having spent an incredible 16million on a station with lifts next to a bridge and probably on the wrong side too it would be nice if I could use it to travel along the Calder Valley.
K

northernchris · 21 May 2019

superkev said:
Its always "jam tomorrow" with the railways. I was always taught to be a successful company you had to be slick which with railways I'll let people judge for themselves.
As for Low moor at 85mph having spent an incredible 16million on a station with lifts next to a bridge and probably on the wrong side too it would be nice if I could use it to travel along the Calder Valley.
K

Problem is, there's many different needs to match as different passengers want different things. Stopping a Manchester service at Low Moor would benefit some, but would cause inconvenience to others. It could also lead to capacity issues if introduced now as there are some extremely busy peak services already without adding additional passengers on to them. For now, a change at Halifax isn't that much of a big deal

Glenn1969 · 21 May 2019

I hope we will eventually see the planned 5/6tph delivered Leeds-Bradford/Halifax which would allow Low Moor to move to 2tph while speeding up running times for the express services.

superkev · 22 May 2019

Glenn1969 said:
I hope we will eventually see the planned 5/6tph delivered Leeds-Bradford/Halifax which would allow Low Moor to move to 2tph while speeding up running times for the express services.

When Low moor was built the promise was that some Calder Valley trains would stop after the resignalling was completed.
K

geoffk · 23 May 2019

I travelled from Mytholmroyd to Leeds today, starting with the 0946 York. This arrived at 0944 and waited two minutes, likewise a two-minute wait for time at Sowerby Bridge and a minute and a half at Halifax. Trains coming west via Brighouse have to be fitted around TPE at Mirfield and Northern trains coming from Halifax at Milner Royd Jn. so journey times are somewhat extended. My train was the 1338 ex Dewsbury to Southport, which had to wait two minutes at Mirfield, a short delay at Heaton Lodge, then 3 and a half minutes at Brighouse and the same at Sowerby Bridge. At least this allows for an eventual stop at Elland when the station is built. My car was at Mytholmroyd and I easily beat the train home to Littleborough, going over the top via Cragg Vale, despite two sets of road works!

superkev · 25 May 2019

Sadly you now need 3 timetable booklets to see all the Calder valley services. Leeds Manchester/ Leeds brughouse, Huddersfield/ Leeds Blackpool. Definitely a backwood step.
K

37201xoIM · 30 May 2019

superkev said:
Sadly you now need 3 timetable booklets to see all the Calder valley services. Leeds Manchester/ Leeds brughouse, Huddersfield/ Leeds Blackpool. Definitely a backwood step.
K

... Which was previously four! And people think the Northern franchise is less than entirely "transformational"......!

Low Moor should, at long last, get its second hourly stop (Manchester train) come December.

Calder Valley running times.

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