Gangways blocked at stations by catering trolley

ashkeba · 19 May 2019

duffield said:
Yes, there's one thing worse than the trolley not being able to get to you so you can't buy food or drink - and that's paying in advance for food and drink and *then* not getting it.

Payment is taken on delivery on ÖBB, presumably for that reason.

RailUK Forums

ValentaFan1974 · 19 May 2019

Jozhua said:
Thank-you for your input! This definitely seems like the best solution to the problem, I guess one of the difficulties on the Norwich to Liverpool route is that the train is rather short for the number of passengers being carried, making this less of a possibility for the catering staff. Whilst the train has a 40/50 minute run of no stops between Stockport and Sheffield, after that it runs pretty much as a local train and stops rather frequently.

What is your experience on the different types of trains/routes and how does this effect your job?

I work on HST's and Voyagers. I have worked out from the timetable when it is best for me to go through the train and how long I roughly have between stops. If I know there is a station coming up within 3-4 minutes and I am close to the vestibules, then I will park there until we arrive and depart the next station, and then I start again. Thankfully most stations on my route are 20-30 mins apart.

When it is a busy train and there are a lot of thirsty customers, then there is the danger of getting stuck mid-carriage - and then I apply my methodology as above to minimise disruption. It's really as straightforward as that. No-one so far has tried to barge past me or get uppity with me as they can see I am trying to help them by getting out of their way.

Hope that helps

londonbridge · 19 May 2019

Not the catering trolley but a similar incident, yesterday I was journeying from Clapham to Croydon, sat two seats forward from a set of doors, two cyclists had got on at Clapham and were completely blocking the door area with their bikes. As we approached Croydon the couple behind me (ie right next to the doors) got up, train stopped, when the woman asked the cyclists to move the bikes slightly so she could get off they basically told her to use the doors at the other end of the carriage. I had already sensed they weren't going to move and was making my way down the aisle to the other set of doors, whilst the language between the couple and the cyclists became increasingly colourful.

ashkeba · 19 May 2019

londonbridge said:
Not the catering trolley but a similar incident, yesterday I was journeying from Clapham to Croydon, sat two seats forward from a set of doors, two cyclists had got on at Clapham and were completely blocking the door area with their bikes. As we approached Croydon the couple behind me (ie right next to the doors) got up, train stopped, when the woman asked the cyclists to move the bikes slightly so she could get off they basically told her to use the doors at the other end of the carriage. I had already sensed they weren't going to move and was making my way down the aise to the other set of doors, whilst the language between the couple and the cyclists became increasingly colourful.

Bit different when it's idiot customers (why couldn't they just put the bikes on the non-opening side?) instead of idiot crew, though!

Bletchleyite · 19 May 2019

londonbridge said:
Not the catering trolley but a similar incident, yesterday I was journeying from Clapham to Croydon, sat two seats forward from a set of doors, two cyclists had got on at Clapham and were completely blocking the door area with their bikes. As we approached Croydon the couple behind me (ie right next to the doors) got up, train stopped, when the woman asked the cyclists to move the bikes slightly so she could get off they basically told her to use the doors at the other end of the carriage. I had already sensed they weren't going to move and was making my way down the aise to the other set of doors, whilst the language between the couple and the cyclists became increasingly colourful.

I'd have simply moved the bicycles for them and left them on the platform for them to do with as they wish. And if the guard was on the way to the exit, informed him of what I had done and why, so he could consider having words too.

swj99 · 19 May 2019

Come to think of it, the solution to this is buy your refreshments before getting on the train. I got an excellent pasty and some good filter coffee off a stall in Waterloo station last time I was there.

Someone once said that not all good ideas actually work well in practice, and maybe refreshment trolleys on trains is an example. On an aeroplane the idea works, because the plane goes for a relatively long time before passengers need to get off, but on a train, the trolley's bound to get in the way sooner or later.

Bletchleyite · 19 May 2019

swj99 said:
Come to think of it, the solution to this is buy your refreshments before getting on the train

Only any use if you're boarding somewhere they are actually sold. Try getting a coffee near Ulverston station on a Sunday, for example.

F Great Eastern · 19 May 2019

Bletchleyite said:
Only any use if you're boarding somewhere they are actually sold. Try getting a coffee near Ulverston station on a Sunday, for example.

Also not always possible if you are connecting from one train to another.

greyman42 · 19 May 2019

Bletchleyite said:
To be fair you are not supposed to put any part of your body outside until the train has stopped.

As the train was seconds from stopping, its no big deal so there was no need for the shouting. I wonder what the member of staff thought might happen?

DanDaDriver · 19 May 2019

F Great Eastern said:
You don't have to believe me. Sorry if it doesn't suit your agenda. As I said though the thousands of journeys I take its rare I have issues and many more examples of excellence than bad practice.

Maybe she had a bad day as the conditions were not great as it was in winter and the train was well late.

I won’t defend staff just for the sake of it. More so behind the scenes, but the Railway seems to have a large contingent of people (mainly ex-BR) that would be completely unemployable in the modern world.

I’m just surprised given that people will take to twitter to demand a guards sacking for asking them to take their feet off the seats or asking them to please not stand so close to the passing train that it will kill you, that someone would say that sort of thing in that way.

Particularly the bit about “Staff are more important than the customers now...”

But I suppose I’m the one with the agenda

F Great Eastern · 19 May 2019

She was an older lady, so she may well have been one of those ex British Rail staff and I'd agree with you that there was more staff of the like back in that time, although on the other hand I doubt there are many people who have been working on the railways for 25 years or so.

I don't think there is a large contingent of people working on the railways that are unemployable, the bad ones are very much in the minority in my view. I have been traveling on the GEML especially for the last 20 years or so on and off, and I can only remember 3 occasions where I've seen poor customer service or attitude. I find with most staff if you treat them with respect they will do the same for you.

DanDaDriver · 19 May 2019

F Great Eastern said:
I don't think there is a large contingent of people working on the railways that are unemployable, the bad ones are very much in the minority in my view. I have been traveling on the GEML especially for the last 20 years or so on and off, and I can only remember 3 occasions where I've seen poor customer service or attitude. I find with most staff if you treat them with respect they will do the same for you.

Which is why is said “behind the scenes.”

Passengers will never come across this lot, and with good reason.

BluePenguin · 19 May 2019

ashkeba said:
Bit different when it's idiot customers (why couldn't they just put the bikes on the non-opening side?) instead of idiot crew, though!

I'm surprised that when the doors opened the bikes did not fall out

XC victim · 19 May 2019

I often see the purchase your refreshments before boarding suggestion. Not particularly useful when you are on a train for 3 or 4 hours and fancy a hot drink. Also not sure struggling aboard an overcrowded service and looking for your seat with luggage and / or children whilst carrying a hot drink and food is quite as easy as some people think

Jozhua · 19 May 2019

XC victim said:
I often see the purchase your refreshments before boarding suggestion. Not particularly useful when you are on a train for 3 or 4 hours and fancy a hot drink. Also not sure struggling aboard an overcrowded service and looking for your seat with luggage and / or children whilst carrying a hot drink and food is quite as easy as some people think

Yeah, maybe a small buffet about the size of the existing cart in the end of a carriage could be a good solution!

Also like your username, it's about how I feel every time I use Cross Country!

sheff1 · 19 May 2019

ashkeba said:
Do any UK trains have Austrian style at-seat service in standard class? Where orders are taken in person or by app, then a trolley containing only orders passes through quickly delivering them.

XC had a similar service a couple of years back. I used it few times and was very impressed. Unfortunately it was discontinued for reasons unknown and the promised "exciting" new offering to replace it never materialised.

>>
Going back to trolleys mid-coach. On a recent journey from Manchester to Sheffield the guard announced after Piccadilly that the trolley would not be coming through due to overcrowding. However the 'different' {regular travellers will know who} attendant was on duty that day and he duly began to come through the front (less busy) carriage, as usual. At Stockport, he was in the middle of the carriage when a large influx from both ends left him surrounded. As he was behind me I didn't see exactly how he manged it but when I got up at Sheffield he had moved on out of the coach.

XC victim · 19 May 2019

Jozhua said:
Yeah, maybe a small buffet about the size of the existing cart in the end of a carriage could be a good solution!

Also like your username, it's about how I feel every time I use Cross Country!

I agree with the small buffet idea, but let’s face it often that is what the trolley becomes when the train is too busy for the trolley to pass through. Also handy as this is where the supplies of drinks and sandwiches are kept as these often run out on the trolley long before it reaches the other end of the train.

I have to admit I do feel very guilty about my username as I chose it when I registered on the site to make one of my many moans about XC. But if I am honest they are my favourite franchise. I do think they usually do a very good job (apart from a bad experience I had last month where I ended up in an argument with the train manager). But XC is the network that serves the whole country (virtually) and I feel it should be the flagship franchise but the DfT and other members of this forum just appear to view it as an inconvenience.

Deafdoggie · 20 May 2019

ashkeba said:
Do any UK trains have Austrian style at-seat service in standard class? Where orders are taken in person or by app, then a trolley containing only orders passes through quickly delivering them. As well as more efficient, not blocking aisles as long, it seems kinder to staff not making them push heavy trolleys around just in case anyone wants anything and try messing with hot water in a crowded area.

Virgin have had a member of the team roaming up and down with an iPad the last few times I’ve traveled, taking shop orders

Mojo · 20 May 2019

ashkeba said:
Do any UK trains have Austrian style at-seat service in standard class? Where orders are taken in person or by app, then a trolley containing only orders passes through quickly delivering them.

Jozhua said:
Except for first class, I highly doubt it. Many intercity trains such as Cross Country and Transpennine Express would probably be too overcrowded for the staff to get through to people in different carriages with their orders!

CrossCountry used to have a system a few years ago whereby customers could preorder items and have them delivered to their seat. I seem to recall there were a few incarnations of this, one whereby items were available to order for customers who were on a train travelling both sides of New Street station in Birmingham whereby items would be delivered to the train at Birmingham, this was a random assortment of expensive items such as Milk Tray chocolates and sparkling wines, there was also a more recent menu offer which was discussed in this thread from 2015: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/crosscountrys-catering-offering-2015-2017.120782/

221129 · 20 May 2019

sheff1 said:
XC had a similar service a couple of years back. I used it few times and was very impressed. Unfortunately it was discontinued for reasons unknown and the promised "exciting" new offering to replace it never materialised.

Discontinued because it was very rarely used and the new offering has been out for the best part of a year but why let facts get in the way of a dig at XC?

mallard · 20 May 2019

I've been "cut off" from my luggage on EMT a couple of times, having to squeeze past the trolley (I'm not a small person) to get to it. Personally, I believe trolleys should be relegated to less crowded regional services. Full buffets can offer more choice, more stock and sell hot/warm food in a much less disruptive way.

Then again, I almost always buy any refreshments before boarding. Ordinary shops are about 1/3rd the price for better quality food. The only thing "gourmet" about the main rail catering provider is their prices.

sheff1 · 20 May 2019

221129 said:
Discontinued because it was very rarely used and the new offering has been out for the best part of a year but why let facts get in the way of a dig at XC?

Saying I was very impressed with the former offer and hence disappointed when it was discontinued is a rather strange way to have a dig.

The new offer https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/3198/jan-2019-a4-retail-tariff-copy.pdf seems to be basically the same as that provided by various other TOCs - reasonable enough, but what is the "exciting" part of it ?

gimmea50anyday · 20 May 2019

Bletchleyite said:
I'd have simply moved the bicycles for them and left them on the platform for them to do with as they wish. And if the guard was on the way to the exit, informed him of what I had done and why, so he could consider having words too.

And if that had happened on my train, those cyclists would have been turfed off! Cycle bay is there for a reason, not enough staff enforce what is a common sense and safety issue.

ashkeba · 21 May 2019

gimmea50anyday said:
And if that had happened on my train, those cyclists would have been turfed off! Cycle bay is there for a reason, not enough staff enforce what is a common sense and safety issue.

Do Capitalstars have a cycle bay? Is it marked on the outside? (I've not taken an unfolded bike on one.)

CanalWalker · 21 May 2019

greyman42 said:
As the train was seconds from stopping, its no big deal so there was no need for the shouting. I wonder what the member of staff thought might happen?

I always take a flask and a lunchbox on long journeys unless I am travelling first class. Far cheaper and much more palatable.
Trolleys are one of my biggest hates, both on trains and planes. Apart, on trains, from making exit difficult - and thus a safety hazard - they impede going to the loo and induce claustrophobia when you are trapped between the fat slob in the window seat and the trolley in the aisle

Bletchleyite · 21 May 2019

gimmea50anyday said:
And if that had happened on my train, those cyclists would have been turfed off! Cycle bay is there for a reason, not enough staff enforce what is a common sense and safety issue.

It's really not that much of a safety issue. It's pretty much never necessary to evacuate a train within seconds in the manner of an aircraft, and if it was the bicycle would be easily thrown out onto the track having pulled the egress. It's just an annoying and inconsiderate obstruction, that's all. But there are routes like the south WCML where near enough all stations are on the same side where it's really not much of an issue at all.

Trainfan344 · 21 May 2019

ashkeba said:
Do any UK trains have Austrian style at-seat service in standard class? Where orders are taken in person or by app, then a trolley containing only orders passes through quickly delivering them. As well as more efficient, not blocking aisles as long, it seems kinder to staff not making them push heavy trolleys around just in case anyone wants anything and try messing with hot water in a crowded area.

I witnessed a version of this on Wednesday while on a west mids day ranger, onboard a Scotland to London via Birmingham train there was a couple of members of staff taking orders and delivering to passengers.

underbank · 21 May 2019

londonbridge said:
Not the catering trolley but a similar incident, yesterday I was journeying from Clapham to Croydon, sat two seats forward from a set of doors, two cyclists had got on at Clapham and were completely blocking the door area with their bikes. As we approached Croydon the couple behind me (ie right next to the doors) got up, train stopped, when the woman asked the cyclists to move the bikes slightly so she could get off they basically told her to use the doors at the other end of the carriage. I had already sensed they weren't going to move and was making my way down the aise to the other set of doors, whilst the language between the couple and the cyclists became increasingly colourful.

Be grateful you weren't on some of the trains we travelled on in and around Amsterdam a few weeks ago. Taking bikes on board is very common with bikes often in every vestibule blocking the doors and passageways. On one train, there were even bikes down the aisles as the vestibules were full. There were even people cycling on the platforms and around the station concourses. An absolute nightmare. People really need to go an experience Amsterdam before advocating more cycling in the UK. And even with all that, the road/traffic congestion is still horrendous. And then you got outside the cities, and whilst there are cycle lanes everywhere, they're empty with just the very occasional cyclist! We came to the conclusion that people are using bikes instead of walking, rather than instead of driving, and using a bike to cover relatively small distances that people would walk in the UK. Not the panacea that people think it is at all.

Dougal2345 · 21 May 2019

underbank said:
...There were even people cycling on the platforms and around the station concourses. An absolute nightmare. People really need to go an experience Amsterdam before advocating more cycling in the UK..

Thank goodness that cycling on platforms and concourses could never happen here

NoOnesFool · 21 May 2019

Jozhua said:
Hi all!

Just wondering what your thoughts are on a couple of recent experiences of mine on the train. By the way, this is in no way directed in a negative way to the staff, I understand they have a job to do, however I am just raising difficulties I have had trying to alight services!

Firstly, I was on a HST from Sheffield to London St Pancras, planning to alight at Long Eaton. My reserved seat was at the back of the train. Usually, they make an announcement at Derby explaining which carriages will be stationed, however this announcement was left much later. Once we neared Long Eaton and I found out this information, the gangway was blocked by a catering trolley, meaning me and other fellow passengers only just alighted on time.

Another time, my train was nearing Chesterfield and my luggage was at the other end of the carriage. When I got up to get the luggage, the trolley was blocking my path and although she did move it up the train for me, it was only just in time, the doors were closing and I had to swing my case into the doorway to prevent it from shutting so I could get out!

Has anyone had any other experiences like this? I understand the staff have jobs to do but on routes with stops close together, blocking the isle can make things difficult for customers trying to alight or board the train. If anyone works, has experience or knows someone in onboard catering, what is your opinion on this and what difficulties do you face trying to provide a service on different routes?

I am a Trolley Host and can't tell you how irritating it is when somebody can clearly see you are busy serving and demands to be let through. Especially those who want to travel in First Class but board at the other end of the train. We have a job to do at the end of the day and are under constant scrutiny of the Train Manager (especially as they are our client). If we don't make it all the way down the train by a certain time, we will be questioned on why this is. I personally consider it rude to leave a customer in the middle of serving them to allow someone who got on at the wrong side of the train to get to their seat when it is advised on departure boards and on the outside of the train where their seat will be. If you can see someone is doing something, then it is polite to wait. I have been sworn at and had several derogatory remarks made at me by impatient people when I am only doing my job. If we let everybody through then we would never get down the train. Obviously I let Train Managers through as they have safety roles to fulfil, and RPOs as they have an allotted time to catch offenders, but there is no way I am moving for anyone else.

On many services, it is impossible to be clear of the gangway at every single station, a morning peak that calls at all the stations, combined with people paying for £2 drinks with £20 notes, cards declining, most people wanting hot drinks, people asking silly questions like do we have a bin on the trolley, it can take 15 minutes just to get down one carriage. So, when people ask if I will move my trolley to let them through, I politely refuse to do this for them.

It is worth noting that for safety reasons, pushing a trolley forwards should be avoided as much as possible, as near misses with limbs hanging out of seats can be a possibility. We are trained to only pull a trolley backwards unless absolutely necessary.

Gangways blocked at stations by catering trolley

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

On Moderation

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Forum Staff

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member