-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Scotrail Class 385 Discussion
- Thread starter Clansman
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Successive rolling stock always seems rougher riding than its predecessors.
380s are rougher than 334s which are rougher than 318s.
385s are rougher than 170s which are tougher than 158s.
Seems to be the modern way!
snookertam
Member
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 778
The 385 workings on the Cathcart routes certainly don't see them used for the full day, but one covers a diagram from 1705 Cathcart Circle onwards, rotating through Circle and Newton via Maxwell Park workings. Unsure what the diagram does prior to that.
If there is an issue with traction motors overheating then that's a huge problem. What is it about the route that causes the overheating issue - Is it the short distances between stations?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
It's not 385 exclusive, it affects 380s and 334s as well I was told. Something to do with the regen brakes iirc.
Alex Hynes was on record a short while ago about this: "There are no stretches of 125mph track in Scotland.... Yet." Much has been made of that one word. As for 385s, they have come from the AT200 family which CAN have a design top speed of 125mph and such a version would be tractioned and geared accordingly. Our 385 could possibly have a tweak for 110mph running along the lines of the 350, but 125mph running would arouse interest from both ASLEF and Ian Prosser about crashworthiness at that speed. Revised cabs would be mandatory and we'd end up with something that looks like a Javelin or IET. 125mph running would save 6 seconds per mile at that speed, 40 miles represents a 4 minutes saving- is that worth the effort and expenditure to achieve this? Not IMHO, the money would be better spent on rolling out electrification and improving infrastructure elsewhere across the network.
snookertam
Member
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 778
That makes sense. I doubt there's too much of an issue under the current diagrams then. Theres three 380 diagrams that spend all day on the routes, 334 units used to make a regular appearance too - were possibly diagrammed for a few services and covered 314 workings where needed. Also notice that most diagrams working those routes have long (20+) layovers at either Neilston or Glasgow Central, which might have been built in for this very reason.
Remember both of those are 140mph stock, and their crash structure reflects that. That said, 125mph gangwayed stock would be… interesting, both from a crash structure point of view and from an aerodynamics point of view (what's the drag coefficient of a 385?).
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Yes, I would imagine they deliberately take that into account. Considering this draw back I imagine the eventual aim is to use predominantly 318/320 on the Circle/Newton/Neilston with the 385s and any remaining 380 diagrams on perhaps only select peak services.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
The traction motors will overheat if used on to many low speed services such as Cathcart Circle workings. 334s, 380s and 385s are therefore all limited to 2 such trips in succession.
Someone explained this to me in I believe this thread, but you'll have to find the relevant post yourself, Google was no help I'm afraid.
Sounds completely made up. 385 units have worked Newton > 2 Cathcart > Newton again on a diagram already.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I don't think it is.
dubscottie
Member
- Joined
- 4 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 916
It is plausible. If the motors are self rather than force ventilated, then running at slow speed for long periods will cause them to overheat as there would insufficient cooling air.
snookertam
Member
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 778
I think it depends on what specific workings are the ones that can cause the issue. If it was purely Cathcart Circle workings (eg. Central-Cathcart-Central) then it's unlikely to come up under normal circumstances as there are no diagrams that concentrate solely on that specific working. During the day they alternate with Newton via Maxwell Park and also crossover with other work during the peak.
It may be that the comparatively faster speed and longer station intervals of the Newton and Neilston branches (eg 50mph as opposed to 35, and 2-3 mins between stations instead of 90 seconds) is enough to overcome that. That the 380s regularly work Neilstons and Paisley Canals all day may suggest that these routes aren't necessarily the ones that cause the issue.
If the issue also takes the Newton and Neilston lines into account, then the long layover times built into the diagrams may be what avoids the issue. Either way, I would imagine the overheating issue is probably a risk only, may not necessarily have happened yet, but is something that the maintenance staff at ScotRail have to factor in when deciding what services the units should regularly work.
That's reassuring to know. Whist accepting there are colision regs. Are prototypes crash tested like cars to demonstrate what happens to the structures of the train in a high speed impact? Or is it all computer assessed and modelling or individual components tested but not a real train subjected to an actual impact?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I believe some prototype designs in the past may have been crash tested, I imagine it's been computer assessed since that was possible, it would probably be too expensive otherwise.
snookertam
Member
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2018
- Messages
- 778
Theres a 4 car 380 diagram on the Shotts services, I think to maintain capacity on the 1717 off Central which used to be 2 x 156.
Ben Conlin
Member
- Joined
- 19 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 45
I’m assuming that when there’s more 385s available the 1717 will get switched to a 6 car 385?
I shall be going on a 385 through to Edinburgh tomorrow now that the new timetable is in service. I originally went on one to Edinburgh back in December, however, it was a disappointing 10 minutes late. I shall report back to this thread once I have returned.
dubscottie
Member
- Joined
- 4 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 916
Just a thought.. The motor overheating was the same reason the 506 units were banned on parts of the Woodhead route.
On the 12:45. Unfortunately we departed 2L as the 12:39 to Aberdeen (which I can confirm was one of the refurbished sets) departed 4L.
The interior is well lit and relatively spacious. Seats and windows don’t line up perfectly but are just about good enough.
The interior is well lit and relatively spacious. Seats and windows don’t line up perfectly but are just about good enough.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
385013 on the 15:45 Glasgow-Newton
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Any on Neilstons or via Carstairs services?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
385 on the 15:40 ex-Lanark.
Only saw 320s, 380s and 314s on the Cathcart/Newton/Neilston but though doesn't mean there weren't any.
Though I think they are mostly morning-peak services the 385s operate on the Circle iirc
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I imagine they'll introduce them to allow the final withdrawal of the 314s.
I agree. It appears to me that they're on top of the situation and a gradual introduction along with the the phased withdrawal of the 314's is the ideal scenario, allowing for further reliable timetable enhancements on the December change.
- Status