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Standing passengers Birmingham 1950.

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quarella

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Last weekend I had a return trip between Minehead and Lynmouth on a 1950 Leyland PS2/1 Tiger originally operated by Birmingham City Transport as shown having a short breather before returning back up Countisbury Hill with its 1:4 gradient. There have been a number of threads about the implementing of rules/legislation for wheelchairs. How about implementing the rather complex standing passenger rules pictured. For those unable to access photos it states
Standing Passengers Permitted
Daytime Service Vehicles
Mondays to Fridays Inclusive: Before 7.0am, 9.30am -4.0pm, 7.15pm -9.0pm FIVE
Saturdays: Before 12.30pm FIVE
Sundays: Before 2.0pm NONE After 2.0pm FIVE
At all other times EIGHT
All night service vehicles at all times Eight
Did the conductor/driver have to evict passengers at 0930 for example. . P1060767.JPG P1060773.JPG
 
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RT4038

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Last weekend I had a return trip between Minehead and Lynmouth on a 1950 Leyland PS2/1 Tiger originally operated by Birmingham City Transport as shown having a short breather before returning back up Countisbury Hill with its 1:4 gradient. There have been a number of threads about the implementing of rules/legislation for wheelchairs. How about implementing the rather complex standing passenger rules pictured. For those unable to access photos it states

Did the conductor/driver have to evict passengers at 0930 for example. . View attachment 63081 View attachment 63082

In those years I think the usual licensed maximum was eight standing passengers, but some undertakings had agreements with their staff (through Trade Unions) to further reduce this number [sometimes only at off peak times], there being no legal right for a passenger to be conveyed as such. Vehicles could be licensed for larger number of standees (in accordance with set formula for floor space) and this was certainly taken up during WW2 with peripheral seating on many single deck buses. It would be unheard of for conductors to eject passengers at the (artificial) time for a capacity change [except perhaps during a 'work to rule'] , and would no doubt risk assault or other reprisal later if they did so! Remember that the world was much smaller then.
Standing was not permitted on the Upper Deck, staircase or platform; 8 standing passengers in the lower saloon of a 7'6" wide bus, with a portly perambulating conductor wearing cash bag and ticket machine, was quite a tight squeeze!
 
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Busaholic

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London Transport rules were five maximum on buses, at conductor's discretion, so the conductor ruled!
 

Bletchleyite

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FWIW those who remember Routemasters with rose-tinted spectacles probably don't remember that the restricted number of standees (was it 6 in latter years?) meant you often had to at busy times wait for a few buses to pass before you got on one. The same applied for Blackpool trams which had similar restrictions. Whereas with modern vehicles with a high standing capacity it's rare not to be able to board the first one to show up even at very busy times.
 

Railman10

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And, of
FWIW those who remember Routemasters with rose-tinted spectacles probably don't remember that the restricted number of standees (was it 6 in latter years?) meant you often had to at busy times wait for a few buses to pass before you got on one. The same applied for Blackpool trams which had similar restrictions. Whereas with modern vehicles with a high standing capacity it's rare not to be able to board the first one to show up even at very busy times.
And of course, because most bus drivers these days seem to think that the maximum number is when no more can squeeze on!
 

Jordan Adam

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And of course, because most bus drivers these days seem to think that the maximum number is when no more can squeeze on!

Well they are partially correct, the maximum number of standee's on a bus today is dictated be weight rather than physical space. For example a 8.9 Metre Enviro200MMC is actually permitted for 48 standees, despite the fact you would probably not get more than 18 standees one one at a push! Of course there are restrictions, for example no passengers are allowed to stand on the platform and in the case of double deckers you can't have standing passengers on the stairs, or upstairs.
 

AM9

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FWIW those who remember Routemasters with rose-tinted spectacles probably don't remember that the restricted number of standees (was it 6 in latter years?) meant you often had to at busy times wait for a few buses to pass before you got on one. The same applied for Blackpool trams which had similar restrictions. Whereas with modern vehicles with a high standing capacity it's rare not to be able to board the first one to show up even at very busy times.
I remember that RTs were limited to 5 standees and RMs to 8. There weren't any RTWs where I grew up so I don't know whether the limit was a constraint of 7'6" wide vehicles or just that the RMs were of slightly different layout where the conductor space was deeper and out of the passenger flow - and there were 'four-seat' longitudonals rather than the RTs 'three-seats'.
 

Busaholic

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FWIW those who remember Routemasters with rose-tinted spectacles probably don't remember that the restricted number of standees (was it 6 in latter years?) meant you often had to at busy times wait for a few buses to pass before you got on one. The same applied for Blackpool trams which had similar restrictions. Whereas with modern vehicles with a high standing capacity it's rare not to be able to board the first one to show up even at very busy times.
Interesting that you say that, as I've just been reading a regular weekly column in the 'Times' by Deborah Ross, which I enjoy hugely because she has a humourous take on so many things which broadly accords with my own, while making some serious points within them. This week she was asking 'when did queueing for buses in London end in favour of the strongest and fittest surging aboard first?' which was making the serious point that, in her neck of the woods which is, I believe, Crouch End in North London, she's had to let several buses go by on occasion because of the surging and, on one occasion, had to return home. She felt moved to mention it having witnessed three teenage girls pushing an old man with a stick who'd been patiently waiting out of the way so they could get on. I've seen posts on this and other forums too about two or three buses on a route sailing by without stopping when vacant seats were plainly visible upstairs, so it's a bit of a lottery. At least conductors (or most of them, anyway) would usually decide who they thought had been waiting in line and adjudicate accordingly, but they'd probably need police protection nowadays.
 

Jordan Adam

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Interesting that you say that, as I've just been reading a regular weekly column in the 'Times' by Deborah Ross, which I enjoy hugely because she has a humourous take on so many things which broadly accords with my own, while making some serious points within them. This week she was asking 'when did queueing for buses in London end in favour of the strongest and fittest surging aboard first?' which was making the serious point that, in her neck of the woods which is, I believe, Crouch End in North London, she's had to let several buses go by on occasion because of the surging and, on one occasion, had to return home. She felt moved to mention it having witnessed three teenage girls pushing an old man with a stick who'd been patiently waiting out of the way so they could get on. I've seen posts on this and other forums too about two or three buses on a route sailing by without stopping when vacant seats were plainly visible upstairs, so it's a bit of a lottery. At least conductors (or most of them, anyway) would usually decide who they thought had been waiting in line and adjudicate accordingly, but they'd probably need police protection nowadays.

Perhaps for another topic but you'd never get away with that up here. "Bus Stop Queuing Protocol" here is that the elderly go first, followed whoever got there first to last. I'd assume (and hope) that with most places elsewhere in the UK it's the same.
It's somewhat the same with where you sit, unless the bus is really busy if you're young and able you should go up to the rear to keep the front seats empty for elderly passengers. The only time i'd sit in the front half is if i'm with my grandmother, even then if it got busy i'd most likely move. Common logic and simple human decency is starting to be lost!
 

Busaholic

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Perhaps for another topic but you'd never get away with that up here. "Bus Stop Queuing Protocol" here is that the elderly go first, followed whoever got there first to last. I'd assume (and hope) that with most places elsewhere in the UK it's the same.
It's somewhat the same with where you sit, unless the bus is really busy if you're young and able you should go up to the rear to keep the front seats empty for elderly passengers. The only time i'd sit in the front half is if i'm with my grandmother, even then if it got busy i'd most likely move. Common logic and simple human decency is starting to be lost!
It used to be that way in London too, as it is still where I live now in Cornwall. I was genuinely saddened to read her piece. Last time I was in London, though, when I had to travel on the Overground, with its few seats, in the peak I was offered a seat by about four separate people. I have to now walk with a stick, more because my balance is compromised than of general immobility, and quietly thanked all four but I was happy as long as I could lean against something, which I managed. Happily, the majority of people are considerate imo.
 

Busaholic

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A simple google search gives you the meaning of "Standee"...
Standee - "a person who is standing rather than seated, especially in a passenger vehicle."
If you got, say, Boris Johnson standing on a bus, obviously as a political stunt, would he be classed as a ''grandee standee''?
 

philthetube

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I found myself using a walking stick for a time last year, and it's amazing how much more considerate people are when you have a stick. It's almost as if it's a disability flag.

It's sad, really, that you have to blatantly flag a lower-ability or disability in order for people to behave considerately (and contrary to general opinion, my experience was that it's not the teenagers who are the most inconsiderate; it was a toss up between the able-bodied elderly and women with "travel system" buggies).

If people do not know you have a disability this is only natural and to be expected.

When I was on crutches I did not want to sit down as standing back up was very painful, I had endless problems persuading people that I did not want their seats.
 

Tom B

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Interesting that you say that, as I've just been reading a regular weekly column in the 'Times' by Deborah Ross, which I enjoy hugely because she has a humourous take on so many things which broadly accords with my own, while making some serious points within them. This week she was asking 'when did queueing for buses in London end in favour of the strongest and fittest surging aboard first?' which was making the serious point that, in her neck of the woods which is, I believe, Crouch End in North London, she's had to let several buses go by on occasion because of the surging and, on one occasion, had to return home. She felt moved to mention it having witnessed three teenage girls pushing an old man with a stick who'd been patiently waiting out of the way so they could get on. I've seen posts on this and other forums too about two or three buses on a route sailing by without stopping when vacant seats were plainly visible upstairs, so it's a bit of a lottery. At least conductors (or most of them, anyway) would usually decide who they thought had been waiting in line and adjudicate accordingly, but they'd probably need police protection nowadays.

Crouch End is one of the few places in London where people properly queue for a bus! Much of this I suspect will be down to the nature of the service taking people to the railhead and there only being one service down most streets.

Elsewhere in the London area its more like a mob of people who don't let others on first!
 

MP33

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When I first started work in London in the early 1980's, at the Bus stops in the City of London there used to be char ladies heading out of the City at the end of the night shift. Although the Bus would be almost empty, anyone trying to jump the queue got a right mouthful.
 

Busaholic

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When I first started work in London in the early 1980's, at the Bus stops in the City of London there used to be char ladies heading out of the City at the end of the night shift. Although the Bus would be almost empty, anyone trying to jump the queue got a right mouthful.
Quite right too.
 

rg177

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Quite right too.

Could have come in quite useful in Manchester in the present day- having been commuting on the 50 for the past few days the queuing protocol seems to be shove your way on and ignore any sort of order!
 
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