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Taxis

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kevjs

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legally there's two distinct things that are lumped together as "taxis" in common usage- Hackney Carriages and Private Hire. The latter are often referred to as Minicabs.
Hackney Carriages are those that you can hail at the kerbside and that can use taxi ranks. Private Hire are those that must be booked by phone or app. Uber in this country operate using Private Hire licences.

London is more regulated than other places- all the Hackney Carriages have to be of specific models, those operating in the central area have additional qualification requirements. Crucially though in London only Hackney Carriages count as "taxis" when it comes to Bus Lanes. TfL have been challenged on this by Addison Lee in court and won. In the rest of the country, this seems to not be the case, and Private Hire can use buslanes.
In Nottingham a fair number of signs say "where Taxi means Wheelchair Accessible Taxi"...

I've noticed a significant number of (normally appalling driven) private hire vehicles are on Wolverhampton Plates - presumably their licencing is pretty lax compared with the authorities in the Nottingham area. There's also quite a few doing the rounds in the city with Gedling plates - seems like they are a favourite as they have "For Hire" boxes on the roof, presumably as they double up as Taxi's in Gedling borough itself?
 
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route101

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In Nottingham a fair number of signs say "where Taxi means Wheelchair Accessible Taxi"...

I've noticed a significant number of (normally appalling driven) private hire vehicles are on Wolverhampton Plates - presumably their licencing is pretty lax compared with the authorities in the Nottingham area. There's also quite a few doing the rounds in the city with Gedling plates - seems like they are a favourite as they have "For Hire" boxes on the roof, presumably as they double up as Taxi's in Gedling borough itself?

Wolverhampton plated taxis in Nottingham plying for trade?
 

eastdyke

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Wolverhampton plated taxis in Nottingham plying for trade?
An issue that the Government intends to address 'when it has time'. Which IMO is long overdue already!
TfL/Mayor of London provided their response to the Government (DfT) call:
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/cross-border-hiring-proposals.pdf
Part extract:
This policy paper has been prepared as a submission to the Department for Transport’s
(DfT) Taxi and Private Hire Task and Finish Working Group that was established in late 2017.
..............
Cross border hiring in the taxi and private hire industries has been commonplace for many years which has resulted in localised issues, particularly in areas where there are a number of licensing authorities in close proximity.
............
 

pieguyrob

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Had a none payer in my taxi over the weekend. He gave me his passport and drivers license as collatoral until he pays the fare. So far he has only fobbed me of about paying the debt.
So, if he hasn't payed by the time I go on holiday, then as per the taxi by-laws, I'm going to hand them in at a police station as lost property.....
However, the by-laws don't state which police station I should hand them in at!
I'm thinking the drivers license in Cardiff police station and the passport at Inverness police station!
I live in Blackpool.
 

eastdyke

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Had a none payer in my taxi over the weekend. He gave me his passport and drivers license as collatoral until he pays the fare. So far he has only fobbed me of about paying the debt.
So, if he hasn't payed by the time I go on holiday, then as per the taxi by-laws, I'm going to hand them in at a police station as lost property.....
However, the by-laws don't state which police station I should hand them in at!
I'm thinking the drivers license in Cardiff police station and the passport at Inverness police station! I live in Blackpool.
LOL.
The by-laws hereabouts seem somewhat dated:
17. The proprietor or driver of a hackney carriage shall, if any property
accidentally left therein by any person who may have been conveyed in
the carriage be found by or handed to him:
(a) carry it as soon as possible and in any event within forty eight
hours, if not sooner claimed by or on behalf of its owner, to the
office of the Council and leave it in the custody of the officer in
charge of the office on his giving a receipt for it; and
(b) be entitled to receive from any person to whom the property shall
be re-delivered an amount equal to five pence in the pound of its
estimated value (or the fare for the distance from the place of
finding to the office of the Council, whichever be the greater) but
not more than five pounds.
The Licensing Authorities need to be subject to a greater level of consistency across the Country.
Our Authority here has just 3 tariffs for Hackneys, (and unsealed tariff change switches!), where I last lived the Authority had 4 tariffs and totally sealed meters.
Visitors around the Country deserve better.
 

kevjs

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Wolverhampton plated taxis in Nottingham plying for trade?
Depends what you mean by "plying for trade" - being hailed in the street I've not seen (although it's years since I've been out in the early hours where minicabs do that sort of thing) no. Being used by Uber and the local taxi firms for pre-booking (via phone/app) - Yes.


Years ago, when I was a uni student, it was pretty common to see the Gedling mini cabs (which can be hailed in Gedling) being hailed on the streets in the city in the early hours of the morning.
 

pieguyrob

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I have already asked a legal professional to look into the legality of my plan.
We had a contract in terms of him booking a taxi. I then picked him up and took him to where he wanted to go to. I fulfilled my part of the contact.
He then chose not to pay me. He gave me of his own free will his passport and drivers licence.
He then said he would pay that Sunday night, he did not.
He then phoned me by accident the following Monday morning, stating he had been out on the razz, when he had given me a bs excuse, stating he then could not pay me.
In terms of taxi by-laws I have read in terms of Blackpool and Wyre borough, who I have both been licensed with, I only need to take any lost property to a police station. Again it does not state which one.
 

pieguyrob

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The verbal contract entered into between the non-payer and myself, means it has nothing to do with the company I drive on. Ot is between him and myself.
 

route101

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Depends what you mean by "plying for trade" - being hailed in the street I've not seen (although it's years since I've been out in the early hours where minicabs do that sort of thing) no. Being used by Uber and the local taxi firms for pre-booking (via phone/app) - Yes.


Years ago, when I was a uni student, it was pretty common to see the Gedling mini cabs (which can be hailed in Gedling) being hailed on the streets in the city in the early hours of the morning.

Private hires cannot be hailed in street , ive heard it does occur . Black Hacks do but cant outside council area
 

kevjs

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Private hires cannot be hailed in street , ive heard it does occur . Black Hacks do but cant outside council area
Yeah, I know that. However because Nottingham is covered by quite a few councils you end up with firms spanning multiple areas. They then end up with vehicles that are private hire in the city and other council areas, but which can be hailed in Gedling. Aside from the "For Hire" light (which is turned off in the city) these vehicles look the same as the private hire vehicles licenced by the city council - of course when theres a load of drunk punters around in the early hours with no green cabs to be seen the unscrupulous driver takes advantage of that "For Hire" light. At least the rise of the local firms own apps and Uber seems to have encouraged much more pre-booking so you can usually find a green cab nowadays.
 

greyman42

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Wolverhampton plated taxis in Nottingham plying for trade?
You get quite a few taxis in York from the Leeds, Bradford, Kirklees areas. They must be making decent money to travel these distances.
 

jopsuk

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there's one of the Cambridge firms has a few, liveried, Private Hire vehicles with Wolverhampton licences. Utter madness. Blatantly a move to reduce oversight.
 

eastdyke

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there's one of the Cambridge firms has a few, liveried, Private Hire vehicles with Wolverhampton licences. Utter madness. Blatantly a move to reduce oversight.
I would say that the motivation is driven initially by Wolverhampton Council - to make money by offering the cheapest licences available over a very wide area.
And therefore drivers are able to get a cheaper licence as a result.
Time for government to modernise the law (as up-thread).
Quote from (Wolverhampton) Express & Star:
https://www.expressandstar.com/news...xi-licences-but-most-are-not-to-city-drivers/
The 11,811 private hire licences issued was by far the highest of any council in the country, breaking the Labour-run authority’s own record from the previous year.
However, according to a Freedom of Information request just 852 of them (seven per cent) went to drivers working in Wolverhampton.
.....
 

krus_aragon

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Similarly, quite often I drive my wife places. Does that mean I can use Bus Lanes as I am being used as a taxi ? Or if I pick up a hitchiker can I use Bus Lanes ?
Sounds like you're looking for a HOV lane. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to drive quite far to find one.
 

edwin_m

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Sounds like you're looking for a HOV lane. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to drive quite far to find one.
When one was introduced many years ago in, I think, Leeds, there were reports of drivers stopping at bus stops and offering anyone a lift so they could use it.
 

radamfi

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What proportion of the time do the LEVC hybrid taxis drive in zero emission mode? Do they restrict petrol use when in central London?
 

AlbertBeale

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In London at least, I see the rationale for "proper" taxis being allowed in most bus lanes, but not private hire vehicles, is that the former are part of the properly regulated public transport system. Their drivers are trained and checked and licensed to a much higher standard than the latter's. As a regular cyclist in central London, I can also say that - whatever problems I've had over the years with bus drivers and cabbies, they're nothing compared to the dangers I face daily on account of the lawless behaviour of the PHV/minicab drivers.

Our social and ecological survival probably depends on the phasing out of almost all private cars - certainly in places like London - in lieu of pubic transport; accessible taxis are an important (albeit small) part of the mix, for people who need them from time to time. Once cars are out of the picture, and commercial vehicles are rationalised to save duplicated trips for deliveries and so on, even London's streets will (mostly) be big enough to fit in all the cycles, buses and taxis needed for good mobility for all.
 

radamfi

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Our social and ecological survival probably depends on the phasing out of almost all private cars - certainly in places like London - in lieu of pubic transport; accessible taxis are an important (albeit small) part of the mix, for people who need them from time to time.

London, especially central London, is the place that needs taxis the least.
 

Bletchleyite

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London, especially central London, is the place that needs taxis the least.

This is very true. There would be an extremely strong case for banning private motor vehicles in central London entirely with the exception of those essential for business use (note: taking a taxi because you're too lazy to go by Tube is not essential for business use; I'm talking deliveries or those carrying heavy articles etc) or for those who have a disability precluding the use of public transport.

There would be an even stronger case for banning all internal combustion engined motor vehicles there entirely as soon as possible, buses and lorries included.
 

AlbertBeale

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This is very true. There would be an extremely strong case for banning private motor vehicles in central London entirely with the exception of those essential for business use (note: taking a taxi because you're too lazy to go by Tube is not essential for business use; I'm talking deliveries or those carrying heavy articles etc) or for those who have a disability precluding the use of public transport.

There would be an even stronger case for banning all internal combustion engined motor vehicles there entirely as soon as possible, buses and lorries included.

I'm not sure that central London has less need for taxis than other areas. There are lots of people with mobility problems who find buses difficult, and there are lots of hospitals and other public services in London which people need to access. And there are times when you're struggling to carry quite a lot of stuff and a mile or two in a taxi is the only realistic option. Not to mention people arriving at mainline stations with lots of luggage who'd be lost without access to a taxi.

In my experience, these needs are as common in central London as in the suburbs. I certainly do agree, however, that private motor vehicles for people - as opposed to for necessary goods and services - should be out of central (if not all) London. And I agree that being too lazy/posh to get a bus or a tube is not an excuse for using a vehicle. I also note, from people I talk to, that users of "minicabs", including Uber etc, are generally doing so instead of getting a bus (ie they're adding to vehicles on the road), whilst users of "proper" taxis are often those who'd otherwise want to drive, or would find it hard to travel at all, and hence taxis can be socially useful.

As for getting internal combustion engines off the roads - yes indeed! What I don't understand is why, given the problems with batteries being insufficient for an all-day cycle of journeys by a bus, lots of London bus routes aren't converted to trolleybus routes. Much cheaper and more flexible than trams, with many of the advantages. Is there a trolleybus thread on this site anywhere??
 

radamfi

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I'm not sure that central London has less need for taxis than other areas. There are lots of people with mobility problems who find buses difficult, and there are lots of hospitals and other public services in London which people need to access. And there are times when you're struggling to carry quite a lot of stuff and a mile or two in a taxi is the only realistic option. Not to mention people arriving at mainline stations with lots of luggage who'd be lost without access to a taxi.

What percentage of taxi trips in central London are "appropriate"? It is clear to anyone who spends any amount of time in central London that there are a vast number of taxis clogging up the streets, much of the time with the yellow light on with people hailing them in the street carrying not much more than an umbrella and briefcase.
 

edwin_m

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What I don't understand is why, given the problems with batteries being insufficient for an all-day cycle of journeys by a bus, lots of London bus routes aren't converted to trolleybus routes. Much cheaper and more flexible than trams, with many of the advantages. Is there a trolleybus thread on this site anywhere??
Trolleybus seems superficially attractive but:
- You don't get any more capacity than a motor bus because the vehicle can't be any bigger as it still has to manouvre in the same streets. In fact capacity and speed could be less if there is no ability to overtake, unless we go back to large multi-entrance bendy buses which don't need to overtake so much because of their much quicker boarding times.
- There's a bit of a reduction in pollution, but the way technology is going most of the routes in central London will be zero-emission soon, without the need for expensive and unsightly trolley wires (worse than tram wires as there are twice as many).
- If the passenger numbers are enough to justify a tram line, then using trolleybuses instead would have much greater operating cost because of the smaller vehicles and the greater energy consumption of a rubber-tyre vehicle.
- They are better than trams on hilly routes but there are no such in central London and those in the suburbs are unlikely to be frequent enough to justify fixed infrastructure.
 

radamfi

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As for getting internal combustion engines off the roads - yes indeed! What I don't understand is why, given the problems with batteries being insufficient for an all-day cycle of journeys by a bus, lots of London bus routes aren't converted to trolleybus routes. Much cheaper and more flexible than trams, with many of the advantages. Is there a trolleybus thread on this site anywhere??

A lot of places are now making great strides towards having a fully battery fleet, typically using opportunity charging, particularly the Netherlands. Most local buses serving Schiphol airport were converted to electric last year and the year before Eindhoven replaced about half its fleet with battery buses. They are now even replacing longer interurban and regional services with electric buses, for example between Amsterdam and Edam. Operators in the far south-east and north-east have put in an order to replace much of their regional services with battery buses.
 

jon0844

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In London at least, I see the rationale for "proper" taxis being allowed in most bus lanes, but not private hire vehicles, is that the former are part of the properly regulated public transport system. Their drivers are trained and checked and licensed to a much higher standard than the latter's. As a regular cyclist in central London, I can also say that - whatever problems I've had over the years with bus drivers and cabbies, they're nothing compared to the dangers I face daily on account of the lawless behaviour of the PHV/minicab drivers.

Our social and ecological survival probably depends on the phasing out of almost all private cars - certainly in places like London - in lieu of pubic transport; accessible taxis are an important (albeit small) part of the mix, for people who need them from time to time. Once cars are out of the picture, and commercial vehicles are rationalised to save duplicated trips for deliveries and so on, even London's streets will (mostly) be big enough to fit in all the cycles, buses and taxis needed for good mobility for all.

I do wonder if TfL cares in the slightest about the new generation of minicabs and their appalling driving? I keep clear of any vehicle with a TfL badge in the window and if I see a Prius then I'm always on guard. Driving on the wrong side of the road to park/drop off/pick up and doing illegal turns is commonplace and God help those on the road (like a cyclist) given I feel unsafe on the pavement (of which they'll gladly mount without warning).

What annoys me is that TfL is now the 'go to' way for minicab drivers outside of London to get licensed even if they never venture into London. In Hertfordshire, most new drivers are using TfL badges instead of local issued ones. I'm told it's far easier to get, and TfL far less likely to get involved with complaints compared to the local authority.

I do wish more people would realise the risks of using the likes of Uber and look beyond the fact it can be cheaper. There's a reason we have regulations, and they've come about after reacting to issues and concerns over the years. Now it seems nobody cares if it's cheap (even when it isn't).
 

theageofthetra

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A lot of places are now making great strides towards having a fully battery fleet, typically using opportunity charging, particularly the Netherlands. Most local buses serving Schiphol airport were converted to electric last year and the year before Eindhoven replaced about half its fleet with battery buses. They are now even replacing longer interurban and regional services with electric buses, for example between Amsterdam and Edam. Operators in the far south-east and north-east have put in an order to replace much of their regional services with battery buses.
Central London has old laws preventing any external street wiring. Trolley buses were way out in the suburbs
 
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