ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

pt_mad · 30 May 2019

InvHst said:
Varies 2/3 refurbs in service and 8/9 classics but the diagrams are completely impossible as they change daily now the only ones I could guarantee a HST on are the
0707 Glasgow to inverness
1102 Inverness to Inverurie
1714 Inverness to Inverurie
0845 Inverness to Glasgow
1508 Glasgow to inverness
1842 Inverness to Edinburgh

Everything else is very hard to predict

A friend says the 0928 Edinburgh to Aberdeen is often a HST as well as the 1602 Aberdeen to Edinburgh. Sound right?

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Highlandspring · 30 May 2019

pt_mad said:
A friend says the 0928 Edinburgh to Aberdeen is often a HST as well as the 1602 Aberdeen to Edinburgh. Sound right?

That's diagram HA902:
1B07 0549 Aberdeen - Edinburgh Waverley
1A55 0928 Edinburgh Waverley - Aberdeen
1B32 1312 Aberdeen - Edinburgh Waverley
1A79 1628 Edinburgh Waverley - Aberdeen
1B51 2010 Aberdeen - Edinburgh Waverley
5B51 2258 Edinburgh Waverley - Haymarket depot
5A41 0100 Haymarket depot - Edinburgh Waverley

pt_mad · 30 May 2019

Highlandspring said:
That's diagram HA902:
1B07 0549 Aberdeen - Edinburgh Waverley
1A55 0928 Edinburgh Waverley - Aberdeen
1B32 1312 Aberdeen - Edinburgh Waverley
1A79 1628 Edinburgh Waverley - Aberdeen
1B51 2010 Aberdeen - Edinburgh Waverley
5B51 2258 Edinburgh Waverley - Haymarket depot
5A41 0100 Haymarket depot - Edinburgh Waverley

Excellent. Does this usually have a HST allocated even if it's a classic set?

Northhighland · 30 May 2019

jingsmonty said:
Where to? Last I heard was that it's supposed to be in Inverness & I haven't seen it!

Think might have seen it in Perth yesterday ?

Northhighland · 30 May 2019

InvHst said:
No seat reservations will exist on every Inverness service that was a HST and isn't anymore as the system still believes it should be one and it's not shocking lack of clarity from scotrail and frankly a slap in the face to all hml users

HML is always bottom of the pile. Central belt first, Aberdeen second, HML always lowest priority.

Frankly with 20 sets the service should be running with 80% HST provision. Someone needs to sort this out. It appears appallingly badly managed.

Staff will get the wrath of passengers on rammed summer services on inadequate 170’s while HST sets lie idle. Bufoonery.

Northhighland · 30 May 2019

John Bishop said:
There’s been no seat reservations out of Inverness for weeks now on all services as the printer is broken!

May be fixed this week, but been out of action for the last several weeks. Not great really.

You would think someone in another station, perhaps Perth could print reservations for next day and pop them on a north bound train....

Surely not rocket science to find a way around that?

InOban · 30 May 2019

Northhighland said:
Think might have seen it in Perth yesterday ?

The delivery path was to Perth. Surprised it's still there.

jingsmonty · 30 May 2019

47271 said:
I agree that it's frustrating that Scotrail seems to be more interested in using HSTs on little used Inverurie shuttles rather than on packed Highland Main Line services. No doubt they have their reasons.

Sadly there's nothing new about packed 158s and 170s on the HML in the summer months. What is new with the lottery that is HST deployment is the total negligence around seat reservations as they move stock around to meet operational requirements and, I'm afraid, the fact that most conductors have given up explaining what's going on to baffled occasional users forced to stand or break up their family group.

Scotrail really needs to be getting more of a public kicking for this, they don't seem to be doing anything to mitigate the problem and it presents a terrible image of Scotland to foreign tourists.

I wouldn't disagree with any of this - frustrating for staff too

pt_mad · 30 May 2019

Northhighland said:
HML is always bottom of the pile. Central belt first, Aberdeen second, HML always lowest priority.

Frankly with 20 sets the service should be running with 80% HST provision. Someone needs to sort this out. It appears appallingly badly managed.

Staff will get the wrath of passengers on rammed summer services on inadequate 170’s while HST sets lie idle. Bufoonery.

If it's double 170s or 158s surely there are more seats available than a 4 car HST anyway? Or are they not double sets?

CJSwan · 30 May 2019

Looks like there’s a lot of broken HSTs sitting around Haymarket. At least one set without any power cars and I’m sure it’s been sitting there for a while now.

Highlandspring · 30 May 2019

pt_mad said:
Excellent. Does this usually have a HST allocated even if it's a classic set?

That's an HST diagram, yes.

John Bishop · 30 May 2019

pt_mad said:
If it's double 170s or 158s surely there are more seats available than a 4 car HST anyway? Or are they not double sets?

Single 170/158s

John Bishop · 30 May 2019

Goldromans said:
Any update re when the 5th set is moving up to Inverness?

Was supposed to come up yesterday to Inverness but was caped due brake fault at Perth.

Southsider · 30 May 2019

John Bishop said:
Was supposed to come up yesterday to Inverness but was caped due brake fault at Perth.

Please excuse my lack of knowledge of railway terms but what does ‘caped’ mean?

Highlandspring · 30 May 2019

'Cancelled' - it's a very old telegraph code word*

*as a pedant I should point out that the telegraph code was "Cape" and using it as a verb is a modern misappropriation.

hexagon789 · 30 May 2019

Southsider said:
Please excuse my lack of knowledge of railway terms but what does ‘caped’ mean?

Cancelled

Northhighland · 30 May 2019

CJSwan said:
Looks like there’s a lot of broken HSTs sitting around Haymarket. At least one set without any power cars and I’m sure it’s been sitting there for a while now.

Seems about half the sets are not in daily service. You can be certain that lease payments are still being made. Seems shambolic that so many are not working and how come it seems common for refurb sets to develop faults either before leaving Doncaster or on arrival in Scotland.

Why run HST from Inverness to Inverurie and not from Inverness to Glasgow Edinburgh? Public will run out of patience with this. Management of this project is beyond woeful.

matchmaker · 30 May 2019

Highlandspring said:
'Cancelled' - it's a very old telegraph code word*

*as a pedant I should point out that the telegraph code was "Cape" and using it as a verb is a modern misappropriation.

Is it not "Cancel and proceed empty"? Edit: or "Cancel At Point of Entry", possibly?

Highlandspring · 30 May 2019

matchmaker said:
Is it not "Cancel and proceed empty"?

No that's a backronym along with "Cancelled at Point of Entry". It's just Cape, it has never (officially) stood for anything.

jingsmonty · 30 May 2019

Northhighland said:
Seems about half the sets are not in daily service. You can be certain that lease payments are still being made. Seems shambolic that so many are not working and how come it seems common for refurb sets to develop faults either before leaving Doncaster or on arrival in Scotland.

Why run HST from Inverness to Inverurie and not from Inverness to Glasgow Edinburgh? Public will run out of patience with this. Management of this project is beyond woeful.

I'm unsure why the sets seem to be working on the HML less with the new timetable. It's far from ideal & is causing no amount of grief for the ontrain staff!

The diagrams will change next month (for the further closures on the A2I- trains from Inverness to Huntly only), so maybe we'll see more changes then

59CosG95 · 30 May 2019

Another delivery of trailers from Ely Papworth to Wabtec this afternoon, with 57303 doing the honours. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K08559/2019/05/30/advanced

jingsmonty · 30 May 2019

59CosG95 said:
Another delivery of trailers from Ely Papworth to Wabtec this afternoon, with 57303 doing the honours. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K08559/2019/05/30/advanced

Good! Hopefully we'll see the speed of delivery pick up now

hexagon789 · 30 May 2019

59CosG95 said:
Another delivery of trailers from Ely Papworth to Wabtec this afternoon, with 57303 doing the honours. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K08559/2019/05/30/advanced

Ex-FGW trailers? As opposed to GWR or XC ones.

jingsmonty · 30 May 2019

hexagon789 said:
Ex-FGW trailers? As opposed to GWR or XC ones.

I'd assume that FGW & GWR trailers are one and the same? Or are you meaning trailers for the short GWR sets?

On another note, a discussion elsewhere as to why Scotrail didn't keep the TGS vehicles, as GWR & XC have done - resulting in the luggage space in the power car van area being unuseable on the refurbished sets & only 2 bike spaces (to be increased to 4) being available!

59CosG95 · 30 May 2019

hexagon789 said:
Ex-FGW trailers? As opposed to GWR or XC ones.

Definitely not XC; GWR and FGW are basically one and the same.

jingsmonty · 30 May 2019

59CosG95 said:
Definitely not XC; GWR and FGW are basically one and the same.

I think hexagon789 is meaning trailers FOR the short GWR sets, as opposed to ex GWR (or FGW) trailers.

hexagon789 · 30 May 2019

jingsmonty said:
I'd assume that FGW & GWR trailers are one and the same? Or are you meaning trailers for the short GWR sets?

By ex-FGW I mean off-lease ones going to be used by ScotRail after refurbishment.

By GWR I meant ones that will be used in GWR "Castle" sets

I appreciate it was rather ambiguous, sorry!

hexagon789 · 30 May 2019

59CosG95 said:
Definitely not XC; GWR and FGW are basically one and the same.

I know I was using FGW as most are still in their colours.

jingsmonty said:
I think hexagon789 is meaning trailers FOR the short GWR sets, as opposed to ex GWR (or FGW) trailers.

I did, yes :oops:

RLBH · 30 May 2019

jingsmonty said:
On another note, a discussion elsewhere as to why Scotrail didn't keep the TGS vehicles, as GWR & XC have done - resulting in the luggage space in the power car van area being unuseable on the refurbished sets & only 2 bike spaces (to be increased to 4) being available!

I'm assuming there's guard's accomodation elsewhere in the refurbished sets (in the Buffet First?), so no requirement for the TGS. Combine that with a heroic assumption that most people with bikes are going end to end, and here we are.

Of course, I still don't understand why the power car van area can't be made useable at intermediate stations. Fire safety has been quoted, but I suspect it's more likely on the grounds of dwell time and fire safety is a useful cover story. Neither problem is insoluble if anyone actually wants to address it.

hexagon789 · 30 May 2019

RLBH said:
I'm assuming there's guard's accomodation elsewhere in the refurbished sets (in the Buffet First?), so no requirement for the TGS. Combine that with a heroic assumption that most people with bikes are going end to end, and here we are.

Of course, I still don't understand why the power car van area can't be made useable at intermediate stations. Fire safety has been quoted, but I suspect it's more likely on the grounds of dwell time and fire safety is a useful cover story. Neither problem is insoluble if anyone actually wants to address it.

The guard's accomodation is in the buffet car on refurbs hence the Trailer Guard First Buffet (TGFB) designation.

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